Powerboat training - is it worth it?

[BassBoy]

I wish I had a spare 3 hours to get really involved in this thread!

Of the 150 or so people that have done their Level2 with me, many have been 'experienced' in their own view.
Without exception, all these 'experienced students' went away with many new skills and better knowledge of a wide range of subjects.

So much depends on the skill and knowledge of the instructor, but particularly, their ability to deliver what is a very comprehensive syllabus, to what is invariably a group of students who arrive with very different levels of knowledge, experience and skills.

This is a massive subject. Just wish I had more time to elaborate.

As matter of interest, I ran a level 2 over the weekend. Of the 3 students, the one that came away with the biggest smile on his face and who admitted he'd learnt a huge amount, was the only person in the group with his own boat that he'd been using regularly for the last 2 years. One of his comments on the feedback form was 'I wish I'd done this course 3 years ago!'

[Heart-trouble]

generally it's the experienced ones that come out with us that can be the worst students, they think they know everything but normally (with exception of one or two) they cant even use power trim or park the boat!

Blackroady, your right and a wee bit wrong, we spend a lot of time on weather/pressure tendancies/tides etc so people can know whether they can weather the weather

[Heart-trouble]

you can fail level 2, people have had to come in for an extra day or 2 if we feel they need more practice

[BassBoy]

HT
Surely you mean.... 'they didn't quite meet the standard required by the course'!!!!!!!
BB

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Heart-trouble

Blackroady, your right and a wee bit wrong, we spend a lot of time on weather/pressure tendancies/tides etc so people can know whether they can weather the weather

I do agree - if you have never studied weather in any way you are will just be waiting to become a statistic for the RNLI . But even with a lot of training & knowledge/ experiance you can stil get surprised. I'd suggest more the value of experience outweighs training in this one area.

Originally Posted by Heart-trouble

you can fail level 2, people have had to come in for an extra day or 2 if we feel they need more practice.

Its good to see that poeple are pulled back to get more tuition. I just wish that there was more of this out there. My only analogy is to flying training - where you have to demonstrate consistency of numerous differant & combination of situations, over repeated weeks & months & if you dont you learn some more.

I'm not saying regulate everything, but hey we all pass a driving test once in our life & off we go .......for ever - why not somehting similar for boats instead of the 'you can if you want , but you dont need to if you dont want to' route that exisits at the moment? - More business for companies too ! ( I am now ready to be verbally destroyed over this )

[Heart-trouble]

yep sorry, you cant say fail anymore!

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by BassBoy

HT
Surely you mean.... 'they didn't quite meet the standard required by the course'!!!!!!!
BB

Good point is it a course / practice or what exatly ? Is it a test, instruction, course , certificate , qualification , exam etc

Yes - I know if I did it I'd know (I think) . For me ( only based on MY experiance , the syllabus etc I dont feel its worth my money) . If there are any PB instrcutors that want to spend a day with me on my boat, giving advice & not get paid please get in touch .

[Ian M]

Well, I have tried hard but I could not leave this thread alone There are two sides to every discussion.
I was one of those 'experienced' students when I went to do my PB2. I had spent years in RIBs as a diver, so I had a pretty sound grounding. Oh, I know the arguments about divers not going out in poor conditions, but like many with a few years of sea experience I have been caught out by the weather at times.
So, I was not new to RIBs, but relatively new to owning my own boat and all that that entailed.
I had quite a poor experience on my PB2, but putting that aside, the benefits of experience can be gained from any of a number of sources. In my case I gained far more useful real world information from the seller of my XS - Lawrence Lock, and the guys at Barnett Marine, than from my PB2, but hey, I have an ICC to wave at the world

[BassBoy]

Blackroady
Tempting! I'll give it some thought and get back to you.
All courses (with the exception of Advanced Commercial Endorsement) use continuous assessment techniques. There is a high degree of subjectivity involved in making these assessments, which in my view, is where the problems with consistent delivery begin with instructors/training centres. The problems surrounding 'measurability' are many. In producing the new "Instructor Handbook' (G19), the RYA for the first time gave us instructors, some specific guidance on 'required performance' levels for each syllabus. It's a step in the right direction and as the name 'guidance' suggests, is not there to stifle an individuals instructors flair or creativity.

Ian
As I've said in previous posts, so much depends on the experience/knowledge/skill of your instructor. This is what dictates the quality of 'training' and not just the content of the syllabus. Sorry you didn't have the best of experiences.

[Rogue Wave]

I've just been reading this thread with interest and as an instructor it's all too easy to say that yes you must have instruction as it represents an income stream. But my view is you should. Sadly I don't do training at the moment as I spend most of my time in Scotland so it's not cost effective to set up another school in the South.

I have had many requests from experienced powerboaters for ICC's and I promise you they all learned stuff on the day.

I guarantee during the course with an EXPERIENCED instructor you will learn something that will improve your abilities as a sea going powerboater. The one area that stands out in this case is slipway tehniques and wave handling at high speed.

[Blizzard]

I think you always learn from training,
but if you think you are experienced, then do the direct assessment Level 2,
then look at doing your internediate / advanced.
These are designed for Ribs, and mostly taught in Ribs and you will learn something.
Especially with a good instructor, who should be able to assess the competence of the students and taylor the learning to their abilities. Ultimately getting the students ability to the required standard or beyond.

[badbaws]

So maybe you have boating expereince but as a powerboat instructor, dinghy & yacht sailer, and a 30000+ ton ship driver I wish everyone would not just have expereince but have decent experience..
Think about car driving anyone can drive a car, but they can't all drive a car well. Anyone can drive a boat, but we have all seen someone doing crazy things in or around the water.

Courses help teach you things you may not have done or realised.
If they are immpossed on us by the government then that is different. I did my powerboat when I was 16, why so I had the fundamental knowledge. I hated learning school subjects, but learning about boating and boating techniques was useful. At 16 I had been sailing dinghies for 8 years, and yes I learnt a lot more about powerboats than I could ever learn in a topper!!

I you don't think that an RYA level 2 is going to give you enough experience, then go book yourself in an offshore rescue boat course with the north sea boys, they will show you a thing or too.

I have on a powerboat course not let the students touch the wheel for all their drills, twin screw and no need to, but equally one guy had to use the wheel he just could not get it..

Some people even with the best instructors and courses will still be a liability behind the whell of a boat or a car.

If you want to learn things do a one to one training with a recommended instructor. If you just want to do a course to get a certificate then do a course like that.

I agree with Rogue wave if you have a decent instrucor you will learn something on your cours, because they will show your more advanced techniques and will tailor the course to your needs.

I believe training is best done young as people tend to have less bad habbits to break out of, such as why do I need to wear that dangly red thing around my leg.. I though it was just there to stop you losing the keys..

PS navigating one RIB at 20 knots on flat calm water is different to navigating another one at 50 knots, or at 15 knots in a force 7 wind over tide... Bet you wish you had done the course then!!

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

I think you always learn from training,
but if you think you are experienced, then do the direct assessment Level 2,
then look at doing your internediate / advanced.
These are designed for Ribs, and mostly taught in Ribs and you will learn something.
Especially with a good instructor, who should be able to assess the competence of the students and taylor the learning to their abilities. Ultimately getting the students ability to the required standard or beyond.

This sort of asks the question I ask myself alot - WHY ? What is my 'required standard' . The standard I am at now suits me fine without spending more money proving it to myself/ or anyone else.

I dont 'need' anything more than experiance for what I do now. I dont know for sure but I think THE most important thing to learn ( from teaching or experiance) is the ' go / no go' decision - get this right & you wont need alot of other stuff. This decision changes form day to day, boat to boat , location to location etc so I think you can only learn this from experiance .

[fred bolton]

A lot of people "think" they can drive powerboats it's only when they have been on a course do they realise how much they didn't know especially with regard to safety eg kill cords etc

[codprawn]

In most walks of life it's the experience that counts for more than anything. Most of the world's top climbers just went out there and did it as do most people who partake in extreme sports.

It's the same with most things - all the qualifications in the world don't really prepare you for the job - you only learn with practice.

It's the same with driving - I passed my test first time but it's only when I got behind the wheel on my own I really started to learn - and I would say it probably took me about 10 years before I was fully happy with my driving skills.

I am NOT saying training is a waste of time for everyone - some people are very apt students whilst others can only learn the hard way!!!

[Rogue Wave]

As long as you are satisfied then that's fine for you. Might I make the the suggestion that if you had a qualification you would know that your abilities were up to the required standard for a powerboat driver as approved by the MCA rather than just assuming it I'm not an advocate of compulsory training but I do think you should have to take a competency test

I have no delusion that I am the best thing on the water, very far from it in fact. In 2008 I logged over 1200 hours on a commercial rib, 700 hrs driving a Tug and about 250 hours driving a landing craft. During that time I've been frightened twice by the Sea, had a clutch let go towing a crane barge out of Belfast, (major incident that turned into). I had to reverse a dive rib from an oil platform to the mothership on two occasions (bucket failure) and had to deal with a flooded aft compartment, a starboard engine failure and a loss of hydraulic pressure to the steering on the Landing Craft. These are all twitchy and stressful moments if only they could have been avoided with a simple go no go decision.

The point I am making is that there is no substitute for experience but shit happens and time spent with an experienced instructor may help you with your ability to deal with problems when they crop up.

Whatever our new ribowner decides to do about traning then I would suggest he reads Powerboating by Peter White or Paul Glatzels RYA Powerboating book and get a free sea safety check from the RNLI and a copy of the RNLI powerboat safety book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Powerboating.../dp/1898660735

http://www.amazon.co.uk/RYA-Powerboa.../dp/0901501999
http://www.amazon.co.uk/RYA-Powerboa...ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.bluedome.co.uk/competitio...etition39.html

http://www.rnli.org.uk/upload/comple..._up_safety.htm

http://www.rnli.org.uk/upload/comple..._up_safety.htm

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am NOT saying training is a waste of time for everyone - some people are very apt students whilst others can only learn the hard way!!!

I think you are right I very much doubt I could teach you anything.

Your point about the driving test reinforces my view about a compulsory test the fact you had to have a test meant that you had learned what side of the road you were to drive on ,what the colours meant on traffic lights, how to do a hill start and not to mow down pedestrians. Without a test you might not have bothered with some of the parts of the test that you needed to know. Whilst doing this you were being trained by somebody with more competence and experience than yourself and examined by somebody with a proven level of knowledge.

A then workmate of mine (soumds like one of your lines) son passed his Driving test at 11:00 am on his seventeenth birthday. He had been a member of the Young Drivers Club for years had studied the highway code and was waiting in the car on the drive at 00.00 hours on his birthday had 10 hours intesive tuition and passed his test. I guess he must have had some natural ability as he later went on to become the youngest (i think) World Rally Champion.

But he still had to pass a test to make it all happen.

[Downhilldai]

Was that Colin McRae or Tom Cave?






Or Dwayne Piper?
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s1i44265

[Rogue Wave]

Ricky Burns

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Ricky Burns

Poor dab.