Powerboat training - is it worth it?

codprawn · 28 February 2009, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

A few hundred quid spent on training will still be a good investment though. Especially if you go somewhere that runs small classes (or even one-on-one) training that can adapt to your existing knowledge.

He already has quite a bit of experience of the sea - a lot more than you get doing a powerboat level 2 for example.

A vhf course is essential to get a licence but that's about it unless you really need to - experience is far better than any bit of paper............

SeaSkills · 01 March 2009, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

experience is far better than any bit of paper............

Well, it is if it's good experience, otherwise it just reinforces and embeds poor technique and bad habits.

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Not much in the way of "proper" instruction

IMHO (and I guess nobody will be very surprised that this is my opinion!) a small investment in terms of "proper" instruction would be a sound addition to the other answers to his original question ...

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What I need, is a rundown on what I require (apart from the craft itself) to go out on the sea

Poly · 01 March 2009, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

He already has quite a bit of experience of the sea - a lot more than you get doing a powerboat level 2 for example.

A vhf course is essential to get a licence but that's about it unless you really need to - experience is far better than any bit of paper............

I think if you read my original post you will see I didn't suggest he specifically go and get a PB2 or indeed that he should be "qualified" or "certificated" at all - but rather get some training.

I had quite a lot of boating experience including, cruising large dinghies and some small power boating (some of which had even been "instructed/supervised") before buying my current boat. However I had never used power trim tried to "navigate" at 20+ knots. If you are used to sailing toppers and canoes - some practice at low speed maneuvers is probably also wise and will save money in repairs. On top of which learning how to safely launch and recover would be useful for someone starting to use a much larger boat than they have owned before.

I did a one-to-one PB2 some of it in my own boat and learned a lot. Realistically one day of uncertificated own boat training would have been almost as good but would not have given me experience in different sized ribs, and would have cost the same. I would certainly want anyone coming to pick me up after I fell our a canoe - or even just to give me & canoe a lift home to be trained too.

If I remember correctly - you also claimed to be very experienced at sea, did a PB2 course and came back with a very positive report.

K&S · 01 March 2009, 08:24

IMO most people's learinging starts after doing their level 2 but the learning is built on 'best practice' so should be good learning.
To go out whith no training there will be many 'learn by discovery' moments wich can be more expensive than the cost of a level 2 pb course.

The type of water & possible rescue situations you might find at the Bitches i would suggest the more training the better ...

JSP · 01 March 2009, 12:20

I've got experience with other types of craft but I was new to plaining hulls, outboard engines and how they handle. I'd only ever used a small tender with a mercury 2.2hp start and go. I've found it a totally new learning curve, one I didn't expect. Never had to think about trimming the engine and things like that. I plan to take some training this year. I've worked things out for myself but would rather go off tried and tested methods.
It's made boating a whole lot more fun though.

Chris · 01 March 2009, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

He already has quite a bit of experience of the sea - a lot more than you get doing a powerboat level 2 for example.

A vhf course is essential to get a licence but that's about it unless you really need to - experience is far better than any bit of paper............

I disagree, how does canoeing prepare you for handling a Powerboat? Of course training is important if just to understand the basics of how to safely handle a powerboat of any kind.

Mollers · 01 March 2009, 13:03

Would use of a Lilo prepare you for canoeing?

codprawn · 01 March 2009, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

I disagree, how does canoeing prepare you for handling a Powerboat? Of course training is important if just to understand the basics of how to safely handle a powerboat of any kind.

He mentioned also having done quite a bit of sailing.

Alright a bit different to a powerboat but there isn't much to it. Just getting out there and driving a boat is all it takes.

Yes my PB2 course was great in getting my hands on a RIB but I didn't really learn anything to be honest as I have been involved with the sea since I was a nipper.

The best thing about my course was the fact the instructor was a bit of a nutter and let us play in some nice big waves.

I ended up getting a safety boat certificate as he could see I was a bit beyond the PB2 level.

I think some of the more advanced courses are worth doing - I would like to do my Yachtmaster but the PB2 course is VERY basic and if anyone has any boating experience it's not really worth it.

John Kennett · 01 March 2009, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

the PB2 course is VERY basic and if anyone has any boating experience it's not really worth it.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I would disagree with you. For most people starting out with RIBs or other powerboats then a level 2 course would be an excellent investment. Good basic skills mean that you're likely to get much more from your boat, and have a more enjoyable time doing it.

Experience is all very well, but why learn the hard way?

Poly · 01 March 2009, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

He mentioned also having done quite a bit of sailing.

in toppers - so we are not looking at long distance passage making, difficult launches etc

Quote:

Alright a bit different to a powerboat but there isn't much to it. Just getting out there and driving a boat is all it takes.

and if you can ride a bike then driving a car is not that different, and come to think of it riding a bike is a bit like walking so almost anyone can drive...

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Yes my PB2 course was great in getting my hands on a RIB but I didn't really learn anything to be honest as my ego is too big.

I fixed your typing for you...

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I ended up getting a safety boat certificate as he could see I was a bit beyond the PB2 level.

presumably you completed all of the syllabus and assessment for the safety boat course then.

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the PB2 course is VERY basic and if anyone has any boating experience it's not really worth it.

how do you know if you did a Safety boat course instead? Or perhaps you had a crap instructor if he was only talking basics with you... ...my instructors spent a bit of time getting to know my background and experience and then asking questions to assess my knowledge before focusing on areas of weakness or stuff that I hadn't wouldn't have learnt elsewhere. If the PB2 course only covers basics then my instructors obviously felt - he's paid for 2 days training lets go beyond that...

codprawn · 01 March 2009, 23:16

http://www.marine-matters.co.uk/file...e_syllabus.pdf

This is what the course covers. My instructor covered all these things - I suppose for someone who has no experience of any kind they would be very valuable but if you HAVE spent some time at sea before the chances are you would already know most of these things.

And yes I went on to do the proper safety boat certificate.

Poly · 01 March 2009, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

And yes I went on to do the proper safety boat certificate.

ah so not on the same 2 days when you were doing the PB2?

Downhilldai · 01 March 2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

...the instructor was a bit of a nutter

Who did you do your training with, Codprawn?

codprawn · 02 March 2009, 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

ah so not on the same 2 days when you were doing the PB2?

No straight after.

Chris · 02 March 2009, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I ended up getting a safety boat certificate as he could see I was a bit beyond the PB2 level.

Hmmm I smell something funny.

Hightower · 02 March 2009, 09:22

I ran my RIB without a PBII course for years and ran a few motor boats years ago too without a licence.

Whilst I would suggest that you take your PBII course to give you some experience, to learn from the outset the correct way of doing things and to possibly to knock your insurance premiums down as well. I would suggest that if you're a confident, practical minded person and not a risk taker, that this isn't nessesary.

I never had any mishaps caused by my own doings before I got my licence. I think that if you really have the interest then you will do the homework yourself, there are lots of books and internet sites to help you.

I did however take my PBII course a couple of years ago and saved some £££'s by replacing someone that couldn't make the course. I had a really fun day out, even if it was bloody cold. I didn't however actually learn too much on the boat handling side or the checks etc. We did however take some bearings whilst out and had to plot these on a map in the classroom along with some basic nav and this I had never done.

So I would suggest you take a PBII course if you have never controlled a powerful boat before and need some confidence, otherwise take it easy and go out with someone with some experience or tag along with a cruise.

PeterM · 02 March 2009, 11:11

Not sure where this going - oh heading straight to bilges ?

Have run dinghys, Jetski , Ribs ( x3 ) SIBs (x2) for about 8 years & I dont have any qualification - I try & rely on a rare thing nowadays COMMON SENSE & building on experiance. It helps I have done DR Navigation for aircraft for PPL & also hold relavant radio licence - so you have to demonstrate a suitable degree of risk assesment & thinking about limitations of yourself & kit.

I can see both sides to the 'qulaifications' debate, but does having PB2 does not make you immune form being stupid,making daft mistakes, or being ctaken by surprise by bad weather? I'm sure it reduces it but doesn't make you perfect. MY feeling is if PB2 was a more 'testing' experiance you would see people 'failing' it more ( like driving test).

How many people do you know that have 'failed' to obtain PB2 after 2 days ? If someone has years ( not days) real life experiance surely that counts for a huge amount ( as much as 2 days professional teaching I think)

John Kennett · 02 March 2009, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackroady

Not sure where this going - oh heading straight to bilges ?

Not yet! But I have split the training discussion into its own thread.

John Kennett · 02 March 2009, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

I ran my RIB without a PBII course for years and ran a few motor boats years ago too without a licence.

And you still don't have a licence. A level 2 certificate indicates that you have had some basic instruction, to a formal syllabus (or have been assessed and found to have equivalent skills). No more, no less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackroady

I can see both sides to the 'qulaifications' debate, but does having PB2 does not make you immune form being stupid,making daft mistakes, or being ctaken by surprise by bad weather?

Of course it doesn't.

People who have a qualification and therefore think they know it all can be a problem to themselves and others. On the other hand, people who think they know it all and don't need any training can also be a problem to themselves and others.

Some people prefer to work things out themselves, and if they're not idiots then that's fine. There's plenty of information that they can read up on, and with a bit of care there's no reason why they shouldn't have a safe and enjoyable time without doing any courses.

However, if you're starting out then a couple of days of training will give you a good understanding of how things work and make it less likely that you will learn difficult lessons the hard way. The certificate just shows that you have done an standard course.

If you've got a bit more experience then you should be able to look at the course syllabus and decide whether you would benefit from the training. If you want a certificate for some reason (like to get an ICC or to frame and hang up over the mantlepiece) then you can do a direct assessment if you already have the skills and don't need to do the training course.

Training and qualifications are closely linked, but they're not the same thing.

jwalker · 02 March 2009, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

... I disagree, how does canoeing prepare you for handling a Powerboat? ...

You learn a lot about the water. How waves work and effect you, how to use them to your advantage, how a boat turns, how to ferry glide, how to reduce the possibility of a broach, how to deal with cold and fatigue, how the tides work, how eddies, back eddies and currents form....there's more, you want me to continue?

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I'm not a great one for formal training and I've only done it when I had a need for the certificates it provided. I've also seen poor practise carried out be trainers so that road isn't always flawless. However, folk enter boating by different routes and have varying degrees of knowledge, ability, experience and savvy so I doubt that one suitable route for all is to be found.

What my training days did provide, though, was contact with like minded people and it was worth doing for that alone.