Pressure Relief Valves, what do you think?

[rnwright1969]

Most (all) of these organisations have one thing in common, they are government organisations and we all know the competence of the specification, due diligence and procurement service offered via the Whitehall mandarins don't we? Carillion anyone......



On a more serious note any innovation in any field needs a critical mass before it becomes the norm, thirty years ago there was maybe one microprocessor controller on a train, there are now three controlling the toilet!

That said I remain a flat-earther with hyperlon on my set-up!

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Come on Chaps at least try to engage a just bit of the Ol grey Matter.

Sheep you say?...Following the Crowd? You say

...Oh!! Yes!!...you mean Like ..The Royal Navy...Customs...Police...Fisheries Protection Rescue Services all (including our own R.N.L.I) Special Forces..ect ect ALL over the world.
Who have used and continue to use a time tested product which nothing has really competed with for decades.

Organisations with just maybe a "Tad" more experience?? ..not to mention exhaustively procurement testing......Organisations with Budgets which give them the WIDEST choice possible!!
Yeah..and despite my experience of being in and around many and different types of Inflatables since the 1970's...
I have visited Ribcraft and Henshaws on numerous occasions and seen many other products being manufactured out of Hyperlon..From Truly Huge Fenders for Big Shipping and Super Yaghts to Oil catchment Boons used to capture and Sometimes move oil slicks to in Ocean Swimming/Anti Jellyfish
Devices...All had one thing in common..I'm sure you can guess what that was?....just in case ALL Made from Hyperlon!
I wonder why they in these chastened economic times use something "cheaper...and easier to weld..and repair"??

..yep it's a more expensive..I wonder why no one minds the extra cost?
Because it's the Real world with Real World experience coming to into play.


I'll take that a experience and those endorsements over the dubious limited opinion of someone who stays WELL inshore with a Plastic S.I.B and FunYak.
...EVERY Time

It's not like the military or government are up there with the latest technology isn't the latest flagship aircraft carrier running on windows 98 or something?
The latest materials that claim to relieve the glue issue are only a handful of years old as is the heat welding of polyeurothane which is not to be confused with its inferior cousin pvc. The Americans seem to use and prefer polyeurothane I think a lot of their military stuff is polyeurothane but I stand to be corrected on that
I think the changes in polyeurothane boat manufacture in the last hand full of years is definitely closing the gap and I'm definitely convinced the general wear and abrasion resistance of polyeurothane is better than hypalon

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by beamishken

It's not like the military or government are up there with the latest technology isn't the latest flagship aircraft carrier running on windows 98 or something?
The latest materials that claim to relieve the glue issue are only a handful of years old as is the heat welding of polyeurothane which is not to be confused with its inferior cousin pvc. The Americans seem to use and prefer polyeurothane I think a lot of their military stuff is polyeurothane but I stand to be corrected on that
I think the changes in polyeurothane boat manufacture in the last hand full of years is definitely closing the gap and I'm definitely convinced the general wear and abrasion resistance of polyeurothane is better than hypalon

I don't think Maximus has anything against polyeurothane as a boat material per se, it just the fact it contains Poly & Euro.......[emoji23][emoji23]

[office888]

Hypalon is a DuPont trademark and is no longer manufactured as a marine inflatable material.

All UK origin CSM/CR material to my knowledge is Pennel & Flipo ORCA from Belgium.

Oil catchment booms are usually CR or PU, due to cost and disposability. CR = chloroprene rubber.

CSM and CR are both thermoset elastomers. They are environmentally toxic to produce and non-recyclable. It is non-flammable due to decomposition of chlorine gas when exposed to high heat. It's a material that is about environmentally friendly as car tires.

PU is a thermoform plastomer. It is recyclable, however, it is flammable unless additives are added.

PVC is also a thermoform plastomer. It is also recyclable, and Bombard / Zodiac took advantage of that property for their "Air Ethic" model. It is also non-flammable due to decomposition of chlorine gas with exposure to high heat.

Both polyurethane and polyvinylchloride are susceptible to failure and aging via plasticizer migration, however, polyurethane type plasticizers are typically a little more UV stable. There IS such thing as non-migrating plasticizers, but the cost of producing a PVC out of non-migrating plasticizer as of Q1 2018 would drive the cost of the cost up to the same level as CSM/CR.

CSM/CR will eventually be made obsolete. It's an inferior material in terms of toxicity, air holding, and rate of manufacture (QC cannot be considered fully complete until tube is fully cured, takes 1 week for adhesive to reach 100% strength and cannot be exposed to water during this time period). Welded tubesets can be QC'd and packaged immediately after welding, so a manufacturer can respond very quickly to leakage and defects.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I don't think Maximus has anything against polyeurothane as a boat material per se, it just the fact it contains Poly & Euro.......[emoji23][emoji23]

As you know..I just like to use the Best Materials available when I spec a Boat Dave.
...It's nice to know you've got the Best when you're 40+ miles off shore in a force 8

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by rnwright1969

Most (all) of these organisations have one thing in common, they are government organisations and we all know the competence of the specification, due diligence and procurement service offered via the Whitehall mandarins don't we? Carillion anyone......



On a more serious note any innovation in any field needs a critical mass before it becomes the norm, thirty years ago there was maybe one microprocessor controller on a train, there are now three controlling the toilet!

That said I remain a flat-earther with hyperlon on my set-up!

Just easier to say you agree

[willk]

Originally Posted by office888

Hypalon is a DuPont trademark and is no longer manufactured as a marine inflatable material..

True, but the debate is about Hyperlon. You won't be familiar with it in the USA as it is used exclusively by a properly British company who (with the use of a valve driven time machine) manufacture their tubes on a perfect August afternoon in 1957...

More seriously, I note that Henshaw's head office has this to say about hypalon:
"polyurethane has twice the puncture resistance and four times greater abrasion resistance than Hypalon. The standard expected service life of a Wing polyurethane tube is 7-8 years—versus only five for a Hypalon tube—with Wing tubes running stiff, strong and still in service after 12-14 years is increasingly common".

I'd also suggest that if anyone is "45 miles offshore in a F8" they have more important things to consider than the fabric in their inflatable tubes. Their weather forecasting ability for one...

[jelwood]

Problem quoting from the wing site is of course they were on the hard sale for PU when they didn’t own a company doing hypalon, now it makes for a very interesting conversation asking their views ��

My personal life experience of hypalon vs PU, ive seen 2 brand new fresh from the factory PU boats go for trials come back leaking from being dragged about on the floor, they’ve come in and been put next to 8 year hypalon sibs used by the mod that have been abused and dragged here there n everywhere and still hold air.

It makes me doubt the big claims about PU being so awesome but I’d imagine others have had opposite experiences.

We can all agree though that hypalon looks 10000 times better than PU ��

[willk]

Originally Posted by jelwood

Problem quoting from the wing site is of course they were on the hard sale for PU...

A problem in the real world obviously. Evidently here we can spoof away...

Originally Posted by jelwood

ive seen 2 brand new fresh from the factory PU boats go for trials come back leaking from being dragged about on the floor,

SIBs? Which brand/manufacturer/s is using PU?

[jelwood]

The wing crrc

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Come on Chaps at least try to engage a just bit of the Ol grey Matter.

Sheep you say?...Following the Crowd? You say

...Oh!! Yes!!...you mean Like ..The Royal Navy...Customs...Police...Fisheries Protection Rescue Services all (including our own R.N.L.I) Special Forces..ect ect ALL over the world.
Who have used and continue to use a time tested product which nothing has really competed with for decades.

Organisations with just maybe a "Tad" more experience?? ..not to mention exhaustively procurement testing......Organisations with Budgets which give them the WIDEST choice possible!!

Somehow I missed your diatribe!

Have you seen the procurement test reports from those organisations? I haven’t, do you even know if they have given serious consideration to PU? Or do they have different needs like being able to quickly patch a puncture in adverse conditions whilst rolling about on the deck of a ship thousands of miles from home? Many of them also spec a weight of hypalon far heavier than most leisure users, and a look at any of the boarding boats will see much more rubber protection strip added to them. Are you comparing apples with apples?

The US govt did have a public document reviewing the performance of PU very favourably it’s on the net if you can be bothered searching.

Of course outside the UK organisations like the USCG have reviewed the options available and come to different conclusions (USCG are predominantly (or perhaps exclusively?) PU tubes. I think I read somewhere that US DOD also use it? And there are large quantities of PU tubed boats sold to all sorts of government and commercial users. So basically nonsense to say ALL rescue and defence organisations ALL over the world use hypalon*.

Given you are a RIbcraft fanboy perhaps you should ask them why they allow their US factory to supply such an inferior material bringing down the reputation of ribcraft globally?

Now I’ve helmed ribs with PU and Hypalon tubes and couldn’t tell the difference - of course not in a F8 (I’ve only once been at sea in a small boat in a genuine F8, not on a rib, and it’s not an experience I’m in a rush to repeat). I don’t think I’ve ever been 40miles from land even on a ferry - do you think that is a key requirement for the material scientist who designed the fabric for your tubes?


*office - You are of course correct these aren’t really hypalon at all, but let’s not confuse people who struggle to tell the difference between Polyvinylchloride and Polyurethane.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

Somehow I missed your diatribe!

Potentially a member of the Dumnones?

[willk]

Originally Posted by jelwood

The wing crrc

Interesting - certainly doesn't support the argument that PU is more abrasion resistant that either Hypalon OR Hyperlon.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

Interesting - certainly doesn't support the argument that PU is more abrasion resistant that either Hypalon OR Hyperlon.

It provides no evidence to support an argument one way or the other... since it sounds like only PU boats were subjected to the Test...

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Poly

Somehow I missed your diatribe!

Have you seen the procurement test reports from those organisations? I haven’t, do you even know if they have given serious consideration to PU? Or do they have different needs like being able to quickly patch a puncture in adverse conditions whilst rolling about on the deck of a ship thousands of miles from home? Many of them also spec a weight of hypalon far heavier than most leisure users, and a look at any of the boarding boats will see much more rubber protection strip added to them. Are you comparing apples with apples?

The US govt did have a public document reviewing the performance of PU very favourably it’s on the net if you can be bothered searching.

Of course outside the UK organisations like the USCG have reviewed the options available and come to different conclusions (USCG are predominantly (or perhaps exclusively?) PU tubes. I think I read somewhere that US DOD also use it? And there are large quantities of PU tubed boats sold to all sorts of government and commercial users. So basically nonsense to say ALL rescue and defence organisations ALL over the world use hypalon*.

Given you are a RIbcraft fanboy perhaps you should ask them why they allow their US factory to supply such an inferior material bringing down the reputation of ribcraft globally?

Now I’ve helmed ribs with PU and Hypalon tubes and couldn’t tell the difference - of course not in a F8 (I’ve only once been at sea in a small boat in a genuine F8, not on a rib, and it’s not an experience I’m in a rush to repeat). I don’t think I’ve ever been 40miles from land even on a ferry - do you think that is a key requirement for the material scientist who designed the fabric for your tubes?


*office - You are of course correct these aren’t really hypalon at all, but let’s not confuse people who struggle to tell the difference between Polyvinylchloride and Polyurethane.

You missed it......OR maybe been burning the midnight oil TRYING to rebuke it!?

After all...you already said you'd go with Hyperlon...when (if) you ever get a Grown up Boat!

I think I'll leave it at that

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Maximus

You missed it or been burning the midnight oil TRYING to rebuke it!?

i presume you mean rebut? But no I was travelling and so only reading ribnet infrequently.

After all...you already said you'd go with Hyperlon...when (if) you ever get a Grown up Boat!

I think I'll leave it at that

I haven’t read back but I am sure I’d have written “probably”...

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Poly

i presume you mean rebut? But no I was travelling and so only reading ribnet infrequently.

I haven’t read back but I am sure I’d have written “probably”...

Is it really that hard for you!???

Oh You may want to look may want to look up Rebuke..for next time!

[GRAHAM SOMERS]

Clever new Valve launched by Bravo, inflation/deflation and built in pressure relief valve
all in one !
Bravo Super Valve 2017 Inflation & Relief Valve 4.35PSI

[Xk59D]

Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing, are you halving or doubling the chance of a problem.

I've often thought someone should make a clip in pr for the standard type valve for those who dont have it but want it without cutting into their tubes.

Then there is the argument do you trust the pr ones anyway.

[jeffstevens763@g]

[QUOTE=GRAHAM SOMERS;766752]Clever new Valve launched by Bravo, inflation/deflation and built in pressure relief valve
all in one !
Bravo Super Valve 2017 Inflation & Relief Valve 4.35PSI[/QUOTE

Didn't read the designed working pressure anywhere surmising 3 psi that quite a temp rise before blow off at 4.35 psi