Project Ribcraft 585

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

From the hse site. No problem using cans to carry fuel unless they are incorrectly marked

The small load exemptions (Main Exemptions) will be applicable up to a total quantity of 333 litres (if other dangerous goods are carried the aggregation rules must be applied). The containers must be UN approved (see Packaging) and properly labelled (see Consignment Procedures). Typical 5 litre containers purchased from car accessory shops and garages may not be so approved.
A typical case would be the carriage of two or three jerricans in a van. Providing those cans are UN approved, marked UN 1203 and labelled with the flammable diamond, the only requirements are

Driver training in accordance with ADR 1.3
Carry 2 kg fire extinguisher
Stow the jerry cans correctly to avoid damage or loss from the vehicle
Note: a typical steel jerry can might be marked circle containing letter u above letter n 3A1/Y/170/**/GB/****

** is the year of manufacture and **** the packaging certificate number.

In this case no density figure is give after the "Y" which means it is suitable only for liquids with relative density ≤ 1.2 (petrol is typically 0.8 or less)

Yeh I just tried to find the info I'd read previously which I was sure said demountable tanks were fine but cans weren't. I found the same page as you copied here but cant work out if thats saying an adr cert is required. I know many filling stations are funny about filling Jerry cans but usually accept when its a boat tank. The regs dont make easy reading but it does look like Jerry cans are legal. However for my boat the introduction of e10 fuel & the greater importance of not storing fuel for extended periods still makes me not want to fit a large volume built in tank. Our usual mo is chuck however many tanks we want into the pickup & fill them up & put them in the boat at the marina & just connect the fuel line to whichever tank we want to use then no need to decant fuel near the boat.

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[A1an]

the local fish farms up here go to the filling stations with a pickup full of jerry cans AND remote tanks, there must be 25 cans/tanks at a time. I shudder to think what it costs.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by A1an

the local fish farms up here go to the filling stations with a pickup full of jerry cans AND remote tanks, there must be 25 cans/tanks at a time. I shudder to think what it costs.

The drivers may have adr certification which is required for commercial use or possibly run the gauntlet. I know plenty folk who just go into unmanned filling stations & fill up with 2 or 3 different cards to get round the £100 limit.
My main reasons in not fitting the inboard tank are the e10 fuel storage issue & if your going to fill up mid journey then you'd need to carry jerry cans to transport to the boat so just as easy to carry extra tanks then no need to decant fuel & no rusty jerry cans in the boat. Looks like I misunderstood the rules on private individuals carying fuel, looks like they are exempt from the rules

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[Maximus]

Originally Posted by beamishken

The drivers may have adr certification which is required for commercial use or possibly run the gauntlet. I know plenty folk who just go into unmanned filling stations & fill up with 2 or 3 different cards to get round the £100 limit.
My main reasons in not fitting the inboard tank are the e10 fuel storage issue & if your going to fill up mid journey then you'd need to carry jerry cans to transport to the boat so just as easy to carry extra tanks then no need to decant fuel & no rusty jerry cans in the boat. Looks like I misunderstood the rules on private individuals carying fuel, looks like they are exempt from the rules

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Yeah ....more Ruies are always good!

[A1an]

Originally Posted by beamishken

The drivers may have adr certification which is required for commercial use or possibly run the gauntlet. I know plenty folk who just go into unmanned filling stations & fill up with 2 or 3 different cards to get round the £100 limit.
My main reasons in not fitting the inboard tank are the e10 fuel storage issue & if your going to fill up mid journey then you'd need to carry jerry cans to transport to the boat so just as easy to carry extra tanks then no need to decant fuel & no rusty jerry cans in the boat. Looks like I misunderstood the rules on private individuals carying fuel, looks like they are exempt from the rules

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it sounds like portable tanks work for you in your situation. My rib is always on the trailer and is towed to whatever slip I’m using on that particular day, whether I turn left or right at my road end I’ve got to pass a filling station before I get to a slip so underfloor should work for me. I don’t think I’ve ever done (or plan to do) more than 100 miles in a day so shouldn’t need to carry extra fuel.

That being said I never considered the E10 element. Sod’s law dictates that the last run you do before sticking the boat in the shed for the winter will leave you with half a tank of fuel!

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by A1an

it sounds like portable tanks work for you in your situation. My rib is always on the trailer and is towed to whatever slip I’m using on that particular day, whether I turn left or right at my road end I’ve got to pass a filling station before I get to a slip so underfloor should work for me. I don’t think I’ve ever done (or plan to do) more than 100 miles in a day so shouldn’t need to carry extra fuel.

That being said I never considered the E10 element. Sod’s law dictates that the last run you do before sticking the boat in the shed for the winter will leave you with half a tank of fuel!

To be honest most of our trips we'd probably only use 2x 25 ltrs tanks which we'd fill on the way same as you, occasionally we will do a longer run & just add the required no of tanks. You often read on here folk asking about fill locations for extended trips & up here in Scotland most are a hike to a filling station with cans which you'd need to carry anyway & they'd need to be metal jerry cans as you cant use plastic but you can use plastic tanks so why not just carry tanks? I'm also a tight arse & wont fill up on e5 but will probably fill a 12l tank with e5 for the shutdown of the engine so no e10 in the vst. Id just swap to the e5 for the last few miles of the trip.
Those are my thoughts on not fitting the underfloor tank, the floor needs to come up anyway as the boat had a single point lift system which is bolted through the hull & I want to remove the metalwork so the central section of floor is coming up as is the console to change to side by side console.
A few years ago I'd definitely have fitted a built in tank but i think the odds are stacked against them nowadays especially where we boat

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[Iankristy]

Worth bearing in mind also(I’ve been down this rabbit hole) it doesn’t really matter what the regs are re carrying fuel, if the wee lassie says £20 and one container allowed is policy that’s that. I went for the discreet approach when buying £200 of petrol a day for commercial operations. Go to local Tesco’s with transit. Always wait for the the furthest pump from tellers. Park van at an angle so when I opened side door they couldn’t see the 10+ plastic Gerry cans. Do a pay at pump them a pay at quiosk. Prob 10000 ltrs bought this way. Or like someone I know take a trailer to a local village station where they don’t care and pay a wee bit more. If you don’t need the quantity potable defo the way to go especially in Scotland!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Iankristy

Worth bearing in mind also(I’ve been down this rabbit hole) it doesn’t really matter what the regs are re carrying fuel, if the wee lassie says £20 and one container allowed is policy that’s that. I went for the discreet approach when buying £200 of petrol a day for commercial operations. Go to local Tesco’s with transit. Always wait for the the furthest pump from tellers. Park van at an angle so when I opened side door they couldn’t see the 10+ plastic Gerry cans. Do a pay at pump them a pay at quiosk. Prob 10000 ltrs bought this way. Or like someone I know take a trailer to a local village station where they don’t care and pay a wee bit more. If you don’t need the quantity potable defo the way to go especially in Scotland!

…another option which never fails, is the after hours pay at pump.

[Orwell boy]

Getting back on topic !From personal ribcraft expierience i think the most imprtant observation should be the ride quality ,which the weight distibution will massively effect , i suspect when these boats had relatively light weight 2 smokes on the back and weight in the front from inboard fuel tanks was not a useful thing to have ,however something i think needs far more thought if your going to hang a heavy four stroke on the back , i think there is alot to be learnt from using a single axle trailer as a seesaw and experimenting with moving seating/ console possibilities and dummy fuel tank ,with the ambition to seating your passengers in the middle of the seesaw not one end or the other ,
how many times have we read the advice on here ,put a bag of stone in the front locker ?

[spartacus]

Try rocking up to a petrol station with a 25 litre Zodiac MilPro fuel bladder!

I use my local garage and they know I have a boat, but other customers queuing stare not knowing quite what I’m up to.

[A1an]

The fun begins.

[Orwell boy]

Originally Posted by A1an

The fun begins.
Attachment 140259
Attachment 140260

Looks super gear ,is that the real thing pacific console ,there was me thinking you were on a tight budget !..nice job ,have you stripped the old gear off deck yet ,was there an internal tank already there ?

[A1an]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Looks super gear ,is that the real thing pacific console ,there was me thinking you were on a tight budget !..nice job ,have you stripped the old gear off deck yet ,was there an internal tank already there ?

Yip, Pacific console from Ribcraft. There’s no under deck tank unfortunately.

[A1an]

Propulsion has arrived

[mick]

Originally Posted by A1an

Propulsion has arrived

Attachment 140868

Nice and shiny

[Orwell boy]

Any more progress pictures ??

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Adr rules mean you can legally fill & transport dedicated remote fuel tanks for boats but you can't legaly carry or fill the same quantity into Jerry cans

ADR rules don't apply unless you're transporting fuel for commercial purposes.
Anyone telling you otherwise is probably a garage forecourt attendant that's clueless, or trying to enforce site rules.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

ADR rules don't apply unless you're transporting fuel for commercial purposes.
Anyone telling you otherwise is probably a garage forecourt attendant that's clueless, or trying to enforce site rules.

I got into a bit of a “discussion” with what I assumed was a jobsworth at a local filling station when he stopped me from filling a couple of 20l Jerry cans. I smugly quoted the regs at him, and then he came back at me with the local authority licensing conditions which are applied over & above the regs. I got my coat…didn’t get my fuel🥸

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I got into a bit of a “discussion” with what I assumed was a jobsworth at a local filling station when he stopped me from filling a couple of 20l Jerry cans. I smugly quoted the regs at him, and then he came back at me with the local authority licensing conditions which are applied over & above the regs. I got my coat…didn’t get my fuel🥸

I show them my ADR ticket. Usually shuts them up because they dont know what it means.

Interestingly, ADR regs on carrying petrol in 'packages' commercially (IE not a sodding great tanker) are very very low quantities and there's no 'limited quantity' exception for it. As in, if the rib ride boys carrying fuel to the boats in jerrycans were stopped by DVSA they'd be royally shafted. THOUSANDS in fines.Non pet-reg vehicle,no ADR documentation, no safety equipment, no fire extinguishers,no spill kit....etc
I did try and tell one of them that a few years back, because the worst time to be filling that kind of thing is when there's an ADR compliant vehicle on site carrying 40k+ litres, but he wouldn't have it. He was absolutely certain that he was covered because he told his insurance and they told him to stick a 4 inch square flammable liquid sticker on his pickup...

[tehguy]

Regulations aside, it worries me how people are not at all concerned about the safety aspect of transporting large quantities of an *extremely* flammable liquid in a somewhat precarious way.