Propeller Accident Statistics

[Observer]

What rule does my last post offend?

[jambo]

Originally Posted by paddlers

Have to agree with you Willk , I can enjoy the debate but abrasiveness & occasional rudeness do nothing to further anyones cause !!
I enjoy the sarcasm that sometimes occurs and it's a great site for anyone interested in all things boaty but I'm pleased when the powers that be step in to douse things down.

Got to agree with you wholeheartedly!!

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

[IanH]

Personally I think there are very many people on here, many who by virtue of their status, should know how to treat people when they have a difference of opinion.

I cannot think of another forum that I have ever frequented where there has been such an niche group of people who only think their opinion counts and everyone else's is either wrong, 'naughty' or not worth the server space.

The sexist, childish and often highly abusive comments from some members really do not make this forum a nice place to frequent. The only reason why I frequent is that there are some useful information posted by some really helpful people.

Grow up, have a big long hard look at how some of your and peers comments are being viewed by other members of the public not so involved with the site and maybe this forum would feel more welcoming to outsiders. Other people have equally valid points of view and deserve an equal opportunity to air their views without a torrent of abuse in return.

If I spoke to people at work like people speak to people on here, it would be gross misconduct. Kid yourself that its sarcasm, its not.

You can ban me now...

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Observer

As I said, the numerous naysayers on here, including particularly the two whose post precede this, are a disgrace. My opinion, validly expressed. Is it going to be censored?

Censored? Never unless you become abusive, or you continue ranting without actually reading the thread.
You're getting pretty close to it as you've either BLATANTLY misunderstood what's been said to you, or haven't read the thread.

Go and read the thread properly and stop ranting, then slowly and rationally write a post explaining what you think I'm saying.

[willk]

Originally Posted by IanH

Personally I think there are very many people on here, many who by virtue of their status, should know how to treat people when they have a difference of opinion.

Don't quite follow that?

Originally Posted by IanH

I cannot think of another forum that I have ever frequented where there has been such an niche group of people who only think their opinion counts and everyone else's is either wrong, 'naughty' or not worth the server space.

You've been VERY lucky on the other (non-ribby) forums - some of them are quite bloody

Originally Posted by IanH

The sexist, childish and often highly abusive comments from some members really do not make this forum a nice place to frequent. The only reason why I frequent is that there are some useful information posted by some really helpful people.

I think you use the forum because you like it.

Originally Posted by IanH

Grow up, have a big long hard look at how some of your and peers comments are being viewed by other members of the public not so involved with the site and maybe this forum would feel more welcoming to outsiders. Other people have equally valid points of view and deserve an equal opportunity to air their views without a torrent of abuse in return.

RIBnet isn't wikipedia, it's a little bit wikipedia, a little bit forum, a little bit chatroom. My intervention in this thread is to prevent a torrent of abuse.

Originally Posted by IanH

If I spoke to people at work like people speak to people on here, it would be gross misconduct. Kid yourself that its sarcasm, its not.

Don't quite follow that either, how is your work code of conduct relevant here?

Originally Posted by IanH

You can ban me now...

Lord no, you're staying, at least until you ask to have your account deleted again.

[captnjack]

Originally Posted by Leapy

... Takes me back a few posts ...

"... and when a proven, reliable, stable, durable and practical improvement comes along I will embrace it totally, as I'm sure will the vast majority of folks on this forum"

If I wasn't a diver putting the transmitter in a drysuit pocket which is going to get far more than dunked I would try it. I need an unpowered, fully submersible (to at least 50m) "fob" for the me with all powered bits inside the console.

Right now I have very limited options to clip on my existing kill cord. I'm in a drysuit, I can't sink without at least 10kgs of lead on me. And I don't have special life jackets whch can fit over drysuits. So I currently girth hitch the cord around my wrist just proximal (up my arm) from my dry glove rings. The rings are hard plastic and 5" or so in diameter so it doesn't want to slip off. But I have to remember and remove it before helping any of my passenger divers around the boat (or back in), or to anchor.

Originally Posted by IanH

Personally I think there are very many people on here, many who by virtue of their status, should know how to treat people when they have a difference of opinion.

I cannot think of another forum that I have ever frequented where there has been such an niche group of people who only think their opinion counts and everyone else's is either wrong, 'naughty' or not worth the server space.

The sexist, childish and often highly abusive comments from some members really do not make this forum a nice place to frequent. The only reason why I frequent is that there are some useful information posted by some really helpful people.

Grow up, have a big long hard look at how some of your and peers comments are being viewed by other members of the public not so involved with the site and maybe this forum would feel more welcoming to outsiders. Other people have equally valid points of view and deserve an equal opportunity to air their views without a torrent of abuse in return.

If I spoke to people at work like people speak to people on here, it would be gross misconduct. Kid yourself that its sarcasm, its not.

You can ban me now...

^^^^^^
What he said.

Pretty much everyone here has just pissed on GPIC, despite his good intentions and extensive efforts to advance dialogue with alternative kill cords. Efforts which are far more lastly and meaningful than sending me polls asking if I want mandatory kill cord legislation in the UK - despite the fact that I live near Seattle, half a word away...

[Observer]

An extract of quotes from this thread, disregarding ones on similar topic:

90% of the accidents either happened outside the UK, were totally irrelevant to this discussion or contain such tenuous links to propellers that they are even irrelevant to the document itself.

Care to justify the "90%"?

Once you remove all the non-killcord related things, plus the above, there's very little there.

Complacent (synonym = "self-satisfied")

I suspect from a quick skim that there are few kill cord preventable accidents in UK waters - which is the point about new kill cord rules being largely pointless

As above

The collective brains trust on this forum - or anywhere else as I've noticed - hasn't identified a more stable, reliable and durable solution than that which currently exists

40 yo technology simply can't be improved. No way.

there is a perfectly good solution, called the kill cord

How is it "perfectly" good when, as a system (not as a mechanism) it has actually failed in numerous cases?

I just don't understand what's wrong with a killcord

As a system, they're not working. Gettit?

It's pointless trying to make anything idiot proof

Oh so it's pointless. Is it really? Why?

my scream detector is going off

Cheap point scoring.

I've tried to avoid the whole killcord debate, as it's a circular argument & in the end Darwin always wins.

There is no language of argument here. Just fatuous comment.

I find it quite incredible that an entire organisation who have done that much research comes up with a list of complete and utter rubbish! I won't even dignify your list with reasons

Astonishing. So this poster dismisses all suggestions out of hand without any explanation whatsoever.

Do you sense that I am contemptuous of the RIBNET massive, with some (unhappily few) honourable exceptions? You bet!

[paddlers]

Coupled with your "blind & stupid "comment on the bottom of page three this is now sounding like a rant !
Do you really speak to people like that at work or socially Tim ?

[Observer]

Originally Posted by paddlers

Coupled with your "blind & stupid "comment on the bottom of page three this is now sounding like a rant !
Do you really speak to people like that at work or socially Tim ?

That was a direct response to:

I find it quite incredible that an entire organisation who have done that much research comes up with a list of complete and utter rubbish! I won't even dignify your list with reasons that none of them will work as you will obviously disagree.

and the smug/complacent/self-satisfied rejoinder to my rebuke that as a long-time RIB and other leisure boats owner, and as an ordinary commentator, I feel completely entitled to express.

Do you wish to defend the post I responded to?

[kerny]

Observer.. Tim, for goodness sake what are you like when you're out in the pub you just go on and on and on

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Observer

An extract of quotes from this thread, disregarding ones on similar topic:



Care to justify the "90%"?

Go and read the initial report thoroughly, taking into context that this was originally part of another thread where killcords were being discussed, not propeller safety and the post was made in THAT thread.
You obviously haven't read it all the way through. I did. If I remember correctly (without spending 45 minutes rereading it and making notes, there were about 5 instances of non killcord usage in the UK.The rest was either overseas incidents,not killcord related or canal boating incidents.

My comment was NOT saying there isn't a problem.

Originally Posted by Observer

Complacent (synonym = "self-satisfied")



As above

I refer you to my first .

Originally Posted by Observer

40 yo technology simply can't be improved. No way.

Really? Care to find who said that?

Personally, I've said many times that we have a perfectly good system, with the minimum number of potential fail points. All it depends on is people not being too stupid to use it.
So far, everything else that's been suggested has had
a)multiple and potentially dangerous potential fail points
b)been so hideously overcomplex and annoying that the same people too stupid to use a killcord will simply disable it,
c)Hasn't actually offered any improvement over wearing a killcord.

Come up with a better idea than a killcord, that doesn't come into the above categories and I'll embrace it.

Note as well, that I suggested a cheap, easy method to ensure the cord has to be removed to stop the engine-ie, has to be fitted in order to start the engine, which is a pretty good reminder to use it.

Originally Posted by Observer

How is it "perfectly" good when, as a system (not as a mechanism) it has actually failed in numerous cases?

Cars break down, tyres get punctures, outboards go wrong,killcords fail. You will NEVER make a system that's reliable 100% of the time and the more complex you make it, the more potential fail points you add.Properly maintained and tested, the killcord system is very reliable.
Fine, if you want RFID or a deadmans handle etc, fit it to your own boat, but the fact that you're thinking about safety means you're not part of the problem.

Originally Posted by Observer

As a system, they're not working. Gettit?

As a system, the USER isn't working. Gettit?

Originally Posted by Observer

Oh so it's pointless. Is it really? Why?

See 1&2 above.

Originally Posted by Observer

Cheap point scoring.

Yes. I laughed.Scream detectors? Behave.
If you can't use the rule of 7 Ps, leave your boat on the shore and watch from the bank.

Originally Posted by Observer

There is no language of argument here. Just fatuous comment.

See 2 above.

Originally Posted by Observer

Astonishing. So this poster dismisses all suggestions out of hand without any explanation whatsoever.

I can see you still haven't read the report.

Originally Posted by Observer

Do you sense that I am contemptuous of the RIBNET massive, with some (unhappily few) honourable exceptions? You bet!

I'm being nice here. Please stop ranting.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by willk

Don't quite follow that either, how is your work code of conduct relevant here?
Lord no, you're staying, at least until you ask to have your account deleted again.

Well since you bought up the subject. Work code of conduct such as mine, is about treating all people with respect and not to alienate people. Its pretty common policy in most companies that employ a diverse range of people and cultures.

Regarding asking to have my account deleted in the past, which is nothing to do with this post so I'm not sure why you bought it up, but since you did I will explain why. This forum hosted those most obscene video of an innocent animal being, I believe (as I did not have the nerve to watch it), torn apart. It was nothing to do with the forum, pretty obscene by the comments and I asked it to be removed. My request was refused so I asked to have my account deleted. Thankfully common sense prevailed and it was eventually removed, and I returned. However it goes to show that the levels of decency of this forum can go to pretty low depths and still be defended by admin team.

[Timw44]

Captnjack,

I wear a neoprene dry suit and I have a 1" D ring on a small patch fixed just above the top of my left thigh. I clip the kill cord to that. It's low enough so that it doesn't get snagged on the wheel and gives me a bit of movement around the console. I unclip when pulling divers kit into the boat and leave the engine running - particularly if we're offshore.

[kerny]

Originally Posted by IanH

Well since you bought up the subject. Work code of conduct such as mine, is about treating all people with respect and not to alienate people. Its pretty common policy in most companies that employ a diverse range of people and cultures.

Regarding asking to have my account deleted in the past, which is nothing to do with this post so I'm not sure why you bought it up, but since you did I will explain why. This forum hosted those most obscene video of an innocent animal being, I believe (as I did not have the nerve to watch it), torn apart. It was nothing to do with the forum, pretty obscene by the comments and I asked it to be removed. My request was refused so I asked to have my account deleted. Thankfully common sense prevailed and it was eventually removed, and I returned. However it goes to show that the levels of decency of this forum can go to pretty low depths and still be defended by admin team.

IanH, as you know it was I that put up the said video and you know damn well that it was there to shock and not for entertainment, which it did, also other members also asked to have it removed but when it wasn't they did not ask for their membership to be removed unlike yourself... a baby spitting its dummy out.
Also it was posted in the non ribbing section ....other stuff.

[Pikey Dave]

Are we in the Bilges yet?

[willk]

Originally Posted by IanH

Well since you bought up the subject. Work code of conduct such as mine, is about treating all people with respect and not to alienate people. Its pretty common policy in most companies that employ a diverse range of people and cultures.

Yes, I know WHAT a code of conduct is, I just don't understand how that of your workplace is relevant to this forum. I can't say "arse" at work, for example - doesn't seem to have much effect around here

Originally Posted by IanH

This forum hosted those most obscene video of an innocent animal being, I believe (as I did not have the nerve to watch it), torn apart. It was nothing to do with the forum, pretty obscene by the comments and I asked it to be removed. My request was refused so I asked to have my account deleted. Thankfully common sense prevailed and it was eventually removed, and I returned. However it goes to show that the levels of decency of this forum can go to pretty low depths and still be defended by admin team.

I didn't watch it either, but I'm told that it didn't contain scenes such as those you describe. It was hosted by Youtube, IIRC, not this forum - it had a link to it. Perhaps we should have watched it and then we'd have been in a better position to judge the depths to which the forum's level of decency had descended? Each of us finds good and bad in the forum, the admin team have to find a balance and try to encourage reasonable behaviour. Demanding the removal of a Youtube link that you haven't viewed seems unreasonable to me, demanding the removal of your account if your demands aren't met seems even more unreasonable. Your remaining a regular poster on such a shocking, poorly managed forum just puzzles me.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by kerny

Observer.. Tim, for goodness sake what are you like when you're out in the pub you just go on and on and on

Sorry I don't see this as a pub chat. It is a serious discussion about a serious subject.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by captnjack

Right now I have very limited options to clip on my existing kill cord. I'm in a drysuit, I can't sink without at least 10kgs of lead on me. And I don't have special life jackets whch can fit over drysuits. So I currently girth hitch the cord around my wrist just proximal (up my arm) from my dry glove rings. The rings are hard plastic and 5" or so in diameter so it doesn't want to slip off. But I have to remember and remove it before helping any of my passenger divers around the boat (or back in), or to anchor.

How about:

1. Clip round leg like most people here do.
2. Modify dry suit to add a secure fixing.
3. Use the "dog leash" method described by 250kts in the other thread
4. Use a belt (such as your weight belt).
5. Wear a life jacket when on the boat and clip to that. If you are feeling safety conscious a lifejacket is probably wise anyway. It would cost less than $300.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Observer

As I said, the numerous naysayers on here, including particularly the two whose post precede this, are a disgrace. My opinion, validly expressed. Is it going to be censored?

Originally Posted by Observer

What rule does my last post offend?

I think its offensive to tell people they are a disgrace. Was the comment meant to be complimentary?

Originally Posted by IanH

Personally I think there are very many people on here, many who by virtue of their status, should know how to treat people when they have a difference of opinion.

I cannot think of another forum that I have ever frequented where there has been such an niche group of people who only think their opinion counts and everyone else's is either wrong, 'naughty' or not worth the server space.

i've been around a few forums - this place is really quite civilised!

The sexist, childish and often highly abusive comments from some members really do not make this forum a nice place to frequent. The only reason why I frequent is that there are some useful information posted by some really helpful people.

Ian, I've just checked through the Admin logs, and I can't see anything you have reported. I believe you may have PM'd the team about this:

Originally Posted by IanH

Regarding asking to have my account deleted in the past, which is nothing to do with this post so I'm not sure why you bought it up, but since you did I will explain why. This forum hosted those most obscene video of an innocent animal being, I believe (as I did not have the nerve to watch it), torn apart. It was nothing to do with the forum, pretty obscene by the comments and I asked it to be removed. My request was refused so I asked to have my account deleted. Thankfully common sense prevailed and it was eventually removed, and I returned. However it goes to show that the levels of decency of this forum can go to pretty low depths and still be defended by admin team.

If you know how you will still find the post. However, all bilge posts are automatically closed (and no longer easy to find) after a period of time. Nobody actually removed it. The admin team did review it - but didn't agree with your analysis.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by Poly

I think its offensive to tell people they are a disgrace. Was the comment meant to be complimentary?

Self-evidently, no. This is an "opinion".

My "opinion" is that there is a general failure of members on this forum to acknowledge and accept a responsibility to seek new methods of mitigating the risks posed by runaway open boats and propeller strikes by propeller driven boats generally.

I consider that responsibility for seeking solutions weighs particularly on owners of RIBs because my perception is that RIBS are disproportionately involved in leisure boat accidents.

I consider that the above-mentioned failure is a disgrace to reason and conscience.

That is my opinion. If you feel that the criticism is aimed at you, then please feel free to feel offended.