Pro's n con's of bare boat charter

[C2 RIBS]

If you choose this route I believe a I have a proper BMF boat hand over document which covers what is expected

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by Dragonhawk ficht

One question I have to ask anyone reading this is, would you treat a hire rib the same way you'd treat a hire car? with a high deposit in place.

In a car, you can generally see the things you are about to crash into!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I would have to know you bloody well, and have a very high opinion of you to lend you a boat

I'm truly flattered by your kind words!

Originally Posted by Poly

I've had the pleasure of being a passenger on a couple of Bareboat charters that John has done

Hmm not sure that the Conway jaunt was much of a pleasure for anyone. Definitely an experience though!

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by Poly

I've had the pleasure of being a passenger on a couple of Bareboat charters that John has done and can therefore offer some reassurance that not every skipper is as crazy and damage inflicting as might be suggested. Indeed both those boats were in tip top condition. However whilst there is a some financial sense to John's approach of not owning a big expensive rib and chartering when you want/need it, there won't be that many people with his level of previous experience who don't have their own boat. I'd guess its more likely you will have relatively inexperienced people who are over inflating their 'hours'. e.g. does "Held a PB2 for 5 yrs = sat my PB2 5 yrs ago and never been in a boat since; or does have been driving ribs every weekend for 3 yrs = drive my sailing clubs safety boat, mostly bobbing up and down and have never opened a chart in all that time; or yacht master with 30 yrs experience = never been over 5 knots "?

My own experience (not with John) is a lot of silly damage can be done launching and recovering so I'd be particularly wary of letting people do that themselves (solent rib charter are incredibly trusting and will let you tow the boat anywhere!) Especially if people are not used to the boat/trailer/slipway.


From a SIB perspective there are some points that spring to mind:

- you'll want people to book up in advance; but SIBs are more weather dependant so people may be more reluctant.
- for £500 for a week, plus a hefty deposit, I might be better just buying a small sib using it for a week and flogging it on.
- with 'bigger' boat charter you can appeal to the SR4/SIB owner who wants to go further afield / with family / go for a weekend without being so weather constrained etc. With SIBs you are more likely to be attracting relative novices.
- If I have booked and paid a lot of money, deposit etc - I 100% expect to be able to turn up and get a boat in perfect condition. It won't be acceptable to get told "sorry the guy last week broke the boat". Given how long it takes to properly patch a rib - that means you need a spare boat, and given the risk of dunking an engine, smashing a drive leg etc - probably a spare engine too!

If you want a little fleet of tiller steered but fairly indestructible boats you might be better with something like this: [self brand promotion] Fun Yak: SECU 12 [/self brand promotion] (there are a whole heap of sizes/styles and competitors too).

Your range might be much restricted with a SIB (or similar) which might mean you can restrict use to categorised waters and (I think) avoid coding depending on your local authorities view of renting boats - and where you are? I know of one place who seem to work this approach, with little 'run arounds' with < 10HP engines that people take to go look at the seals etc.

I think customers might expect that, but does a marina consider this 'commercial' and charge more?

Your suggestion of tying into accommodation is OK - but its an extra level of hassle. Unless you already have a holiday house etc to rent, then your upside there is probably minimal.

Personally I'd like to see more people offering decent ribs for bareboat charter - but unless you either don't do it very commercially (i.e. you only work by word of mouth to trusted customers) or are serious enough to set up a 'proper' business then I think it has the potential to be a lot of hassle/cost compared to the return. In terms of insurance and coding etc - I don't think it is a whole load more complex or involved than skippered charter: it is after all a common approach with yachts. Whilst everyone's initial reaction is probably the same as C2's - I'd be amazed if there is much wilful 'theft' of boats on charter, compared to the careless abuse. The problem with just taking a massive deposit is the customer needs to trust you more than you trust them! At some point you will charge a customer for a new prop when he thinks it was just a little ding and you'll get slagged off on-line; otherwise you'll end up not charging them for minor damage as a gesture of goodwill.

Many thanks Poly, I fully understand and agree that not every hire'er would have the respect and experience as John, and some as you say will have the qualifications but......may not have re-sat there licence, but been out every weekend. It will be tricky to judge some, but I believe i'm a good judge of character,
I fully agree with the launching issues, having seen inexperienced recoveries where most damage can occur, so I could offer a launch and recover service, maybe offer instructions on how to throw off and drive back on, water hight dependable,
As for SIB's, that was just a thought if the rib hire took off. I wouldn't charge those prices either, maybe £200 a week all included for sib's, and £150 or £200 a day for rib, with discounts for more than 1 day,
well if I can get set up I hope to offer a bargain discount package especialy for Ribnet members, a family member owns a wonderful camp site overlooking St Brides Bay and N skomer, I could also arrange accomodation on the island, but would need good notice.
Those Yak's look fun btw, I'll certainly consider if thing's work out.
thank you for sharing your experience, I like the sound of "word of mouth with trusted customers" I'd like to start with those customers,

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

If you choose this route I believe a I have a proper BMF boat hand over document which covers what is expected

That would be great, many thanks Ian, I will pm you my details and pay you for any expenses, I'm starting to feel more encouraged now with all the fantastic information that I feel armed and almost ready to go with.
Kind regards
Paul.

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by Tim M

In a car, you can generally see the things you are about to crash into!

I fully understand what your saying there Tim, however all of us here, that can read a chart properly will also see or at least now to stay away from those area's of concern, plus they'll have an on screen chart with the Lowrance,

[Poly]

Paul - I'm impressed with your untempered enthusiasm, good luck with it - and if we were ever looking to rib in your part of the world would seriously consider it rather than towing a wee boat all the way.

I would drive it exactly the same way I drive a hire car! But from what others on here say I drive hire cars slightly differently. I usually have a £500 excess (much larger than my own car), I also know that the robbing gits at the hire company will hold all of that £500 until even a minor scratch gets fixed and they know the cost. So I worry more about where I park it, and as I have not become cocky about its exact dimensions pay more attention when squeezing it through small gaps etc. But then I normally drive a tatty old vectra!

[Dhf]

Thank you for your honesty there Poly, and seeing as you'd take precaution with a hire vehicle in a precarious situation, then I'd have no problem hiring to yourself, and others with a similar view. as long as chart marked speed restrictions and local bylaws are followed then I'd have no problem with those wanting to use full throttle, maybe I could restrict speed with those unfamiliar with hitting waves at 40kn+, not that I do that often but we get big gaps between rollers in certain places round hear, where it's safer to get air without slamming into the next one, not always possible though, and I wouldn't want people thinking its possible to hold wot for long periods.

[Rogue Wave]

Looks like its a goer then good luck! you might enjoy this

Buddy Whittington - Pay The Band - YouTube

[PeterM]

Of the small boat / non rib type of hire ;

Purple Pelican - Self-drive boat hire in Poole

Paul does post on here sometimes so may be worth a chat as he is a friendly chap , but I think they are restricted to inside the harbour only.

Prices could be some kind of help and I 'think ' he has three boats.

Pete

[Dhf]

[QUOTE=Rogue Wave;477145]Looks like its a goer then good luck! you might enjoy this

Great track that one RW, I hear what your saying and cheers for the thumbs up luck with it all.
It's not a definate goer yet though, but looking more posible every day, I'm booking into the marina this weekend for a month, as I'm looking to make a promotional movie showing the Rib's spec and performance, and maybe include some cruising ground shots. and posible accommodation.
The way I see it is, it's like when the financial avisor asks what you wanna do with your saving's, do you want to be in the( red high risk, high interest zone) or the (blue low risk resonable interest zone.) Well I'd like to be in the blue zone by only hiring to proven experienced, responsible and respectful customers, If it's posible anyway.
I'm not desperatly in need of hiring my rib, but I'd like to see her get more use, so hopfuly the only band members I'll have to pay are the insurers premium's, and tax's of course where applicable. which ever band they fall in.



[QUOTE=PeterM;477148]Of the small boat / non rib type of hire ;

Cheers for the link pete, It seems he's got everything in place there I'd say, reading through the terms and condition's, some people could recieve multi fines for braking rules, well a contract is a legally binding thing I suppose. I think this is why this guy is still in business, because he's got set rules, which should atract respectable customer's, although I'm suprised he dosn't insist on at least some experience with customers though.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Dragonhawk ficht

Cheers for the link pete, It seems he's got everything in place there I'd say, reading through the terms and condition's, some people could recieve multi fines for braking rules, well a contract is a legally binding thing I suppose. I think this is why this guy is still in business, because he's got set rules, which should atract respectable customer's, although I'm suprised he dosn't insist on at least some experience with customers though.

Whilst it might act as a deterrent this clause:

The Hirer shall comply and shall ensure that his guests comply with the laws and regulations Poole Harbour during the course of this agreement. The vessel under any circumstances shall not exceed speeds of 10 knots. 6 knots in the restricted speed areas. Failure to comply with this will result in a fine of up to £1000 payable to the Company.

is almost certainly not enforceable! Only organisations empowered by law can issue fines; even "penalty charges" are dodgy ground in consumer contracts. He would be far better to take the Hire Car companies' approach and say something like:

- the Harbour authority enforce speed limits of 6 & 10 knots in the relevant areas. Failure to comply with such limits may result in significant fines [upto £1000 or custodial sentences]. The hirer acknowledges receiving a copy of the Bylaws; and that penalties are typically much higher than for similar offences on land. Responsibility for paying such fines will lie solely with the Hirer.
- the Company may terminate the Hire without refund if they believe the vessel is being driven irresponsibly or in breach of the bylaws.
- the Hirer indemnifies the Company against any liability it may have as the owner of the vessel under the Bylaws which arise due to breaches of the bylaws by the Hirer or his guests.
- in the event of any action taken by the Hirer resulting in prosecution or investigation by the Harbour Authority or other competent persons, the company may charge a £50 administration fee to cover its costs and time. On request all details of your hire, including copies of identification documents will be passed to the Harbour Authority; it is a condition of hire that you consent to such disclosure.

obviously if you want to maximise your protection and ensure it is enforceable you need legal advice.

[PeterM]

10 knots.....but bear in mind they only have 15 horses on the back!

[Dhf]

Totaly agree, I wasn't thinking of applying any fines in the T&C's myself, and yes I think your version sounds better, I was just pointing out this bit... "Each vessel is fitted with a tracking device, if the tracking device reports that the Hirer has passed the limit of navigation then the Hirer agrees to pay a fee of £500 on each occasion the vessel passes the limit of navigation".
After another look I noticed they insist on the customer being supervised and fully understand the basic rules of the road, saying "If you and we are happy we set you free!" plus they offer a comprehensive range of courses.
Well I guess that's okay for those speeds, but I would have to insist on at least PB2 or equivalant, for insurance purposes.