Pulled by the police whilst towing the RIB home.....

[willk]

Originally Posted by CJL

We have club boats and I think I would struggle to prove ownership or for an officer to find suitable evidence.

Surely ANY paperwork has to be a start?

Your boats must be insured in your club's name and you must have a club membership form/card/receipt. I'd have thought that both of those together with a polite explanation of your activities that day should suffice.

I got pulled once towing my old RIB through Antrim. The rozzer spotted* that she was a Redbay and then spent the next coupla minutes explaining precisely why he liked them so much...



*A budding Detective no doubt

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by willk

m. The rozzer spotted* that she was a Redbay and then spent the next coupla minutes explaining precisely why he liked them so much...

Filff.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Mollers

Filff.

The Devil takes care of his own

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Poly

....- or are you under a misapprehension that police officers are human beings and therefore able to make mistakes / errors of judgement?

Hehe. Mr. Polwart, your sense of humour is deffo improving...

[C2 RIBS]

Here is another example why stopping us may help @HantspolMarine: A 40 HP Mariner outboard stolen over the weekend in Cowes keep your eyes and ears open and ring us if you think you know anything

[gtb]

Originally Posted by Poly

A police caution at least ensures a conviction - if the evidence is ropey or inadmissible then it may be "better" that going to court and "loosing".

A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.

https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

I only mention it because Poly is usually dead on with the details, and the little pedantic devil in me made me do it sorry!

[PeterM]

As I am a boat spotter..if i can I always get the passenger in my car to take pics of any boat (especially ribs ) I see being towed about..

I also watch the stolen boat site for anything happening in my area or one I've been to.

One day surely I'll run across a stolen boat being towed...

Yes I'm a nerd.. :-)..

[Poly]

Originally Posted by gtb

A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.

https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

I only mention it because Poly is usually dead on with the details, and the little pedantic devil in me made me do it sorry!

You are absolutely right, only a court can convict, but the difference between a police caution and an admonishment from the court is largely one of nomenclature. Although I am now wondering whether you don't have admonition as an option down there? But I accept and applaud your pedantry.

[wiLlfish]

Originally Posted by willk

The Devil takes care of his own


Nott dis wan hee duzunt.

I sore dis bote arf sunkid inn banger arber sow i runng upp de pnsi nobburs an sed oi yew wankir yor bote neads bailin owt

Hee sed keap onn yew twatt an yool nead baylin owt soe yew wil
Ungraytful bastud

Reegards
Willfish

[Kraken999]

Originally Posted by CJL

Any advice on what would help prove ownership?

We have club boats and I think I would struggle to prove ownership or for an officer to find suitable evidence.

Chris

Sorry for delay. Quick swing from nights to lates!

Stop checked a bloke down Penmarlam tonight just leaving with a SIB in tow. Thought I was game on. He was legit and really grateful to be checked out. I was a little disappointed to be honest. Would have been the money shot if he had been stealing it.

There's any number of things you could do that might assist. Have the club officials telephone numbers on your phone and offer one of them up for verification. Got a club website? Put a picture of the boats on it. Officers at the roadside could get their control room to check the website. Have a laminated card made which gives details of the boat and your authority to be in possession of it. Just a few ideas off the top of my head for starters.

But basically put yourself in the shoes of the Officer. What would satisfy you? Probably be no different for them.

As I say don't get too concerned by it. It's the thieves we want to be concerned not those lawfully going about their business. Most of us with any common-sense know a wrongun when we see it just like anyone else.

UKBA Cutter Searcher was in Looe Bay this evening. They took a run up the river in their RIB. Then saw them alongside in Fowey later on and I blogged a look on board and at their RIB. Very nice set up. I want one,

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

My thoughts are how do we know if boat and trailer have been stolen recently and owner has not reported it, easy to have a trailer plate made to look legit. I think most people would be more peed off if there lovely rib was taken rather than having to stop for a check. If your car is taken off your drive overnight it won't be reported till u wake and phone to report so must be same as a boat,
So ok to not stop cars unless reported stolen , I am happy to have checks done , maybe we would see more boats recovered as we always shout when we post another boat stolen by a scum bag

Id be happier if they actually dealt with reported crime instead of harassing the public

Originally Posted by ajstars

Doug, Thomas and Portholme let's just hope it's your boats that get nicked then shall we?
Unbelievable, totally unbelievable. Bet you would be the first to complain when you find out 5 Police cars have driven right by your stolen pride and joy as its towed off by the crook.

About 2 years ago my business premises burglar alarm went of at midnight , the alarm automaticaly calls my mobile so I can jump in the car with the dog and bat and attend. As it happened I had had a few drinks the bight before so called the police and asked them to attend while i waited for a taxi. 5 minutes later the police called back and told me "We have attended and the building is secure" Foolishly beliveing the officers is question had provided a good service in return for my taxes i returned to bed.

The following morning i dioscovered I had been broken into. The CCTV showed 3 burglars smashing a window, climbing in, a police car then drove past (officers did not even get out of the car) and the 3 burglars left with Imacs etc under arms, they shortly returned with van for more kit. Cost to our business after insurance claim was still thousands of pounds. For the police to claim the building was secure while the burglars were inside is outrageous

On reporting the burglary at 0630 in the morning, I was told not to enter the building or to touch anything. Students arrived for various courses at 0900 and we managed to re locate them onto yachts, a nearby office etc. Our office staff could not get on with any work. Every couple of hours i called the police back to find out when someone was coming, eventually at 1600 an officer tuned up. He promptly handled a bottle and several other items i identified as not being ours and possibly "print friendly".

The following day the finger print lady finally turned up. I showed her the bottle and she told me it would have been good for prints if the officer the afternoon before had not handled it.

Several months later i receive a letter from the police telling me that one of the burglars had been caught on another job and had opted to "clear up " this and a number of other crimes ay the same time in court BUT WITH NO ADDITIONAL SENTENCE" however as he was under 18 they were unable to tell me (the victim) who he was, nor was I allowed to attend court. After doing some research i discovered that this system of "police clear ups" does not require the person claiming the crime to name his accomplices, nor is he expected to return the stolen goods, however on the police files this s is a SOLVED CRIME. Criminals see "police clear ups" as one of the biggest jokes in our legal system and regularly claim each others crimes just to get the cases written of. The police then record another "solved crime" each time. There have been instances were a convict has "cleared up" over 100 domestic burglaries at once with no additional sentencing.

Following this incident we moved upstairs into a new unit and fitted security doors/gates to the 2 two exits. We were burgled again, this time they came equipped and destroyed 2 grands worth of security door to break into the office. Once again I called the police at 0630 and waited until late afternoon for an officer to turn up. Once he was here i explained that on his files there would be a criminal walking free who had previous for this site. His belief was this was someone different as they had used "tools" this time and it would be waste of time knocking on the door of the previous criminal. I disagreed and showed the officers CCTv from both crimes. On both occasions 3 hoodies had committed the offence, on both occasions they looked similar heigh and build and appeared teenagers. The officer left promising to look into it. Over the next 2 weeks I called the police daily, left messages etc but could never speak to the officer dealing with this case./ After 2 weeks when i got hold of him and I asked what had happened with the previous criminal he told me he had not bothered pursuing that possible lead.

I visited all of the local businesses and managed to piece together various bits of CCTC showing a very distinct van (reg plates not shown up on CCTV) coming in and out of the road just before and after the break in. Police not interested. I spoke the local petrol station and asked if they could look at their CCTV for the 2 given times in the morning in case the distinctive van filled up there. They told me they would be happy to if the police requested it. Police no interested. I pointed out to the police that there was a traffic camera round the corner in the direction the getaway van sped of- I thought this was a pretty good chance to maybe get a reg number- police not interested in actually doing any work, apparently traffic cameras are a different department!!!

Last year when driving back from Haslar marina I was pulled over for an apparently "faulty break light" I could tell by the way they behaved they were lying and I insisted on my passenger putting his foot on the break pedal while the 2 cops and myself stood behind the car. The faulty light now mysteriously worked. No apology provided simply told to "keep an eye on that brake light"

4 yrs ago my brother was having a party. the police turned yup and asked him to turn the music down. HE probably did reply particularly intelligently but next thing 5 cops batter him down the stairs. My brother is then arrested (when he should have been taken to hospital). He is told that they will call someone to tell them where he is. He asks for them to call me. I asked the copper who called my a long series of questions about what had happened. I was told several time "He has done nothing wrong, he is just a bit drunk, we will let him out in a couple of hours." His girl friend and another friend witnessed the whole thing at the flat and put in a complaint. The police respond by charging him 3 days later with police assault. In court you have 5 witnesses vs 2. The police have no bruises at all, my brother has a doctor report and images showing he has been properly beaten up. Result 5 criminal bullying police lie under oath and my brother has a violent record for a crime he never committed.

While i am certain that there are a minority of police officers out there who are honest, diligent and hard working (and in fact I know a couple of them). I am sadly disappointed by the service provided by the police in this country.

Anyone who tells me a car towing a RIB at night is suspicious and should be stopped is of their head. Thousand of boats are towed by night throughout this country every week and i regularly tow. What i find incredible is that the police in this country can have a crime reported to them and do nothing about it, they can be provided with evidence but do nothing with it and yet the some people think that innocent boat towers should be stopped, when no crime has been reported!

[Kraken999]

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Id be happier if they actually dealt with reported crime instead of harassing the public

About 2 years ago my business premises burglar alarm went of at midnight , the alarm automaticaly calls my mobile so I can jump in the car with the dog and bat and attend. As it happened I had had a few drinks the bight before so called the police and asked them to attend while i waited for a taxi. 5 minutes later the police called back and told me "We have attended and the building is secure" Foolishly beliveing the officers is question had provided a good service in return for my taxes i returned to bed.

The following morning i dioscovered I had been broken into. The CCTV showed 3 burglars smashing a window, climbing in, a police car then drove past (officers did not even get out of the car) and the 3 burglars left with Imacs etc under arms, they shortly returned with van for more kit. Cost to our business after insurance claim was still thousands of pounds. For the police to claim the building was secure while the burglars were inside is outrageous

On reporting the burglary at 0630 in the morning, I was told not to enter the building or to touch anything. Students arrived for various courses at 0900 and we managed to re locate them onto yachts, a nearby office etc. Our office staff could not get on with any work. Every couple of hours i called the police back to find out when someone was coming, eventually at 1600 an officer tuned up. He promptly handled a bottle and several other items i identified as not being ours and possibly "print friendly".

The following day the finger print lady finally turned up. I showed her the bottle and she told me it would have been good for prints if the officer the afternoon before had not handled it.

Several months later i receive a letter from the police telling me that one of the burglars had been caught on another job and had opted to "clear up " this and a number of other crimes ay the same time in court BUT WITH NO ADDITIONAL SENTENCE" however as he was under 18 they were unable to tell me (the victim) who he was, nor was I allowed to attend court. After doing some research i discovered that this system of "police clear ups" does not require the person claiming the crime to name his accomplices, nor is he expected to return the stolen goods, however on the police files this s is a SOLVED CRIME. Criminals see "police clear ups" as one of the biggest jokes in our legal system and regularly claim each others crimes just to get the cases written of. The police then record another "solved crime" each time. There have been instances were a convict has "cleared up" over 100 domestic burglaries at once with no additional sentencing.

Following this incident we moved upstairs into a new unit and fitted security doors/gates to the 2 two exits. We were burgled again, this time they came equipped and destroyed 2 grands worth of security door to break into the office. Once again I called the police at 0630 and waited until late afternoon for an officer to turn up. Once he was here i explained that on his files there would be a criminal walking free who had previous for this site. His belief was this was someone different as they had used "tools" this time and it would be waste of time knocking on the door of the previous criminal. I disagreed and showed the officers CCTv from both crimes. On both occasions 3 hoodies had committed the offence, on both occasions they looked similar heigh and build and appeared teenagers. The officer left promising to look into it. Over the next 2 weeks I called the police daily, left messages etc but could never speak to the officer dealing with this case./ After 2 weeks when i got hold of him and I asked what had happened with the previous criminal he told me he had not bothered pursuing that possible lead.

I visited all of the local businesses and managed to piece together various bits of CCTC showing a very distinct van (reg plates not shown up on CCTV) coming in and out of the road just before and after the break in. Police not interested. I spoke the local petrol station and asked if they could look at their CCTV for the 2 given times in the morning in case the distinctive van filled up there. They told me they would be happy to if the police requested it. Police no interested. I pointed out to the police that there was a traffic camera round the corner in the direction the getaway van sped of- I thought this was a pretty good chance to maybe get a reg number- police not interested in actually doing any work, apparently traffic cameras are a different department!!!

Last year when driving back from Haslar marina I was pulled over for an apparently "faulty break light" I could tell by the way they behaved they were lying and I insisted on my passenger putting his foot on the break pedal while the 2 cops and myself stood behind the car. The faulty light now mysteriously worked. No apology provided simply told to "keep an eye on that brake light"

4 yrs ago my brother was having a party. the police turned yup and asked him to turn the music down. HE probably did reply particularly intelligently but next thing 5 cops batter him down the stairs. My brother is then arrested (when he should have been taken to hospital). He is told that they will call someone to tell them where he is. He asks for them to call me. I asked the copper who called my a long series of questions about what had happened. I was told several time "He has done nothing wrong, he is just a bit drunk, we will let him out in a couple of hours." His girl friend and another friend witnessed the whole thing at the flat and put in a complaint. The police respond by charging him 3 days later with police assault. In court you have 5 witnesses vs 2. The police have no bruises at all, my brother has a doctor report and images showing he has been properly beaten up. Result 5 criminal bullying police lie under oath and my brother has a violent record for a crime he never committed.

While i am certain that there are a minority of police officers out there who are honest, diligent and hard working (and in fact I know a couple of them). I am sadly disappointed by the service provided by the police in this country.

Anyone who tells me a car towing a RIB at night is suspicious and should be stopped is of their head. Thousand of boats are towed by night throughout this country every week and i regularly tow. What i find incredible is that the police in this country can have a crime reported to them and do nothing about it, they can be provided with evidence but do nothing with it and yet the some people think that innocent boat towers should be stopped, when no crime has been reported!

Don't expect me to get all defensive. There's nothing in the sentiments of your post I wouldn't agree with except possibly the word minority. I too am regularly disappointed by some examples of the service provided by the police in this country. It may be amongst the best in the world but it's still not good enough. Sad thing is it's set to get worse not better. It may not be any good now or even my place to say it. But I am sincerely sorry that you and your family have been let down. Because of the actions of some I have to work that much harder to maintain public satisfaction and I don't like that.

Regards.

[Leapy]

Doug ... I sympathise with your experience, I really do. There's probably far too many of us who could tell a similar or related story and who never quite get over the consequences of whatever events are behind it.

But I shall stick with the principle that prevention is better than cure and so I will continue to express gratitude to any officers who pulled me over on my regular through-the-night- journeys from the Midlands to/from Mylor.

[tonto]

In a couple of weeks (If I get home on time!) I will be dragging my rib from Somerset to Campbeltown, mostly overnight as I want to arrive AM.

Looking at the above posts I guess I will be in for a lot of stopping then!

Not quite sure if I would appreciate it if I was stopped a number of times during this journey, and providing it is not used as an excuse to go over the whole rig with a fine tooth comb, (I have all valid insurance, MOT, driving licenses etc etc) I guess I wouldnt mind too much an occasional question, but part of me thinks it is an imposition to stop an apparently legit rig because it is at night.

Using this rationale, then any vehicle travelling on any road at night could be stopped to allow the police to ascertain if it was recently stolen, but I dont hear that happening? Or is it OK just because it is a boat being towed?

Are there not PNC checks that could be carried out on the vehicle, before stopping it, and then address and criminal history of the vehicle owner would appear, surely? I am guessing any boat being towed is not going to bolt at a high rate of speed, and could be followed for a little while to do some intelligence gathering??

The other part of me thinks that it is also not a bad thing if the law does stop some rigs if they actually catch some thieving B***ards!

I suppose it just depends how it affects the stopped person at the time, whjat impression they then take away from the encounter

[SteveHall]

I would be happy if I got stopped, and I think I have enough to prove that she is mine, from photos on iPhone, Insurance docs etc...

It would be good to know that the police do these spot checks for theft, and not just stopping us and trying to give points away for everything and anything!

[Kraken999]

Tonto,

Allow me if I may to respond to your points.

"Looking at the above posts I guess I will be in for a lot of stopping then!

Not quite sure if I would appreciate it if I was stopped a number of times during this journey, and providing it is not used as an excuse to go over the whole rig with a fine tooth comb, (I have all valid insurance, MOT, driving licenses etc etc) I guess I wouldnt mind too much an occasional question, but part of me thinks it is an imposition to stop an apparently legit rig because it is at night."

You are highly unlikely to get stopped. Imagine how many miles of road there are in the UK. Factor in how many Police there may be on duty at that particular time who are uncommitted (it will be a shockingly small number from a fast diminishing total) and travelling the same bit of road you are at the same time. The chances of seeing a Police car let alone being stopped at all are minuscule.

"Using this rationale, then any vehicle travelling on any road at night could be stopped to allow the police to ascertain if it was recently stolen, but I dont hear that happening?Or is it OK just because it is a boat being towed?"

That is exactly what happens day or night towing or not.

"Are there not PNC checks that could be carried out on the vehicle, before stopping it, and then address and criminal history of the vehicle owner would appear, surely? I am guessing any boat being towed is not going to bolt at a high rate of speed, and could be followed for a little while to do some intelligence gathering??"

That is exactly what happens. Only as a previous poster pointed out. If the vehicle owner is not aware that their car or boat has been stolen e.g. stolen when they were on holiday or asleep in their bed it will not have been reported stolen and the PNC will not have it recorded as stolen. Not to mention is it on the right registration plates? So the only sure way of ascertaining all is in order is to stop the vehicle and speak with the occupants. In any event one should never trust the accuracy of I.T. systems over human interactions. Old fashioned I know but borne out by experience.

The other part of me thinks that it is also not a bad thing if the law does stop some rigs if they actually catch some thieving B***ards!"

If it wasn't a successful technique I wouldn't waste everyones time practising it.

"I suppose it just depends how it affects the stopped person at the time, whjat impression they then take away from the encounter"

This is the nub of the issue and it's incumbent upon the Police Officer to make sure that they do it right and leave a positive impression. Sadly I am aware this is not always the case. You'll have just been unlucky if you draw the particularly unimaginative anal traffic officer whose life's work is to issue tickets for pedantic construction and use defects and minor infringements that would be better dealt with by friendly advice. (Now to qualify my last before I put some sensitive souls nose out of joint. Not all traffic officers are anal many are great thief takers and not all people respond well to friendly advice and need a little more persuasion by way of processing.)

Now then much more importantly I too will be travelling to Campbeltown from the South West, RIB in tow for a little holiday in that area later in the year. Are you on business or pleasure? I'd be really interested to know how you get on and any recommendations for launching slips places to see in the RIB, eateries, etc, etc. Could you give us a report on your experiences when you're done?

Regards.

[HughN]

Originally Posted by Kraken999

Regards and take care of it.

Not quite "Mind how you go, Sir!"

My trailer has a 'show plate' with my surname on it (so that the launching guys get the right one) fixed to the winch post. It would have to be quite a ballsy thief to put their name on something they had just nicked.

If asked for proof of ownership, I would ring my home number on my mobile and suggest the officer asks my wife whether I have a boat. The subsequent rant about time / money would be difficult to fake and leave no room for uncertainty!

[Kraken999]

Originally Posted by SteveHall

I would be happy if I got stopped, and I think I have enough to prove that she is mine, from photos on iPhone, Insurance docs etc...

It would be good to know that the police do these spot checks for theft, and not just stopping us and trying to give points away for everything and anything!

With a surname of Hall you've got be a top bloke. We're not related are we? I've got a Brother named Steve but he doesn't live in Lancs or have a RIB.

Refer to my last re anal traffic officers. Nearly 30 years service and in that time only ever felt the need to give a ticket resulting in points once. 28 years ago! Just in case there's a boss reading I have made a significant contribution to the U.K. having the largest prison population in Europe over the years and this is in accord with the Home Secretary's wish that I should be dealing with crime and nothing but crime. (If only that were the reality and I didn't have to spend so much time dealing with mental health issues or doing social work. Don't get me started.) If I stop you it's in an effort to prevent and detect crime.

Anyway I'm day off now and SWMBO left me a list of real jobs to get on with. Best go and put the washing out and do the housework! It's not like it is on the telly or in the daily wail this Policing lark you know.

Catch you later!

[Kraken999]

Originally Posted by HughN

Not quite "Mind how you go, Sir!"

My trailer has a 'show plate' with my surname on it (so that the launching guys get the right one) fixed to the winch post. It would have to be quite a ballsy thief to put their name on something they had just nicked.

If asked for proof of ownership, I would ring my home number on my mobile and suggest the officer asks my wife whether I have a boat. The subsequent rant about time / money would be difficult to fake and leave no room for uncertainty!

Congratulations on your Knighthood. Sir Hugh. I'd of course of preceded any conversation with allo allo allo! The days of Dixon are long gone, more's the shame, but that's how it is. He was if you recall shot and killed on duty.

Two excellent methods re ownership. One goes to work to avoid rants about time and money so I'd quickly move along now!

[tonto]

Originally Posted by Kraken999

Now then much more importantly I too will be travelling to Campbeltown from the South West, RIB in tow for a little holiday in that area later in the year. Are you on business or pleasure? I'd be really interested to know how you get on and any recommendations for launching slips places to see in the RIB, eateries, etc, etc. Could you give us a report on your experiences when you're done?

Regards.

Sounds like you practice your job in a very sympathetic, and reasonable way! I am sure if all encounters with Traffic Officers were dealt with in that way, a lot of what has previously been written, here and elswhere, would be much more ameniable.
As you point out, there are 2 sides to the story, and some peple are resentful of any authority figure, or have had bad experinces, and are defensive, and sometimes obstructive.

I will of course let yuo know about Campbeltown when we are there!

Best Regards,
Gary