Radar Reflectors on RIBs?

[Garygee]

Hi Jooles

Not convinced about these.

If you look at the claimed RCS it timy to start with 4sqM I think.

Given that ones that claim 10sqM dont apear to work that well think these would peform even worse.

The Cyclops ones Charles I have hard good reports of but again then are back up to the 150 quid mark I think in UK.
Think I would rather pay double for a active one or save the all the money.

Regards Gary

[jools]

Gary

I take it your not convinced about the tubular radar reflector thing that gives 2sqM for £27

(2sqM did look rather small - but you would abide to the regs!)

The sea-me looks good - but expensive

[Jelly]

I was very please to see the cyclops still about - they any good?
I aquired one, no information.
The old Company I worked for used to use them on the end of the sensor cables we towed about the oceans - this didn't stop some people from trying to drive over them - they then when to active ones made by Pharos Marine £1.4K see them for miles ie full blown racon - touch out of any recreational boats pocket I think!
Jelly

[Alan]

Originally posted by jools

something like this would fit nicely on the A-frame

http://www.on-line-marine.com/online...dept%5Fid=2007

and is just a bit cheaper!

Jools

This is the what was fitted to Team Spirit (4.8m Ribcraft) during RB4. As much use as a chocolate teapot I'm afraid. Well from our experience anyway.

Given the height above water and the motion of a RIB at speed I don't believe any passive radar reflector is going to be much use. If we are talking about simply fufilling the requirements of SOLAS V then the cheapest thing as a sop to regulation would be the right move. Do you think wrapping some tinfoil around my a-frame would count?

I am not convinced that the SOLAS reg would ever be enforced and if it was whether one could argue a RIB (leastways a smallish one) was too small to mount a radar reflector on. As the MCA leaflet implies the only real reason to have one is to defend yourself against legal ramifications if you have an accident. Do you think if you have a high speed collision with a ship you are going to be around to worry about legal action

I would be really concerned if this ill-thought out piece of legislation lead to everyone having an active target enhancer. Can you imagine that if every RIB in the Solent say had one, all turned on at the same time and banging around at 20-40kts? Any ships radar screen would look like NORAD looking at an incoming missile strike!! (remember the movie Wargames anybody?)

Perhaps the sensible answer if one was to go for an active transponder would be to have it wired to a switch and only activate in poor vis/at night?

To comment further on radars, about 13 years ago as a student at what was then Plymouth Poly doing a Marine Studies degree I spent a lot of time playing (Sorry studying) in a ship simulator. The radars fitted were fairly state of the art and featured "ARPA" (Automatic Radar Plotting Aid) which at that time was a new and shiny feature. These radar units were the size of a small fridge freezer. Look at the march of technology whereby a unit such as the Raymarine ones has "MARPA" technology in a unit the size of a laptop computer! So if we cant pick up other RIBS reliably using this kit with radar reflectors, most other powerboats wont be able to either. OK, a shiip or shore station with a dirty great antennae mounted high up may have a better chance but even if they do see you (assuming they are watching) they are highly unlikely to take avoiding action anyway! Except if you have a radar target enhancer so that they start to think you are another liberian bannana boat coming towards them at 50kts!! (Either that or an exocet)

Right I'll put me soapbox away now!
Alan

[DM]

Sorry to be hoggin' the threads but I've been exploring Weymouth this week so I need a fix. Pepper is right . PBO did an indepth test of reflectors last year. Their conclusion was that only the active types were of any use on small boats. Personally, I always keep plenty of chaff up my rocket launcher. I wonder if the new regulation is government orientated so that they can monitor the newly found passion that Afghanis have for ribbing. What with the spliff boys and all, the channel must be like the wacky races on a saturday night.

[Paul Glatzel]

I have a Cyclops 2 which is the smallest seemingly for a 6m RIB. They seem to be as good as any of the others in the tests but are expensive and I think mine cost c£300. Visit http://www.cyclopstech.co.uk/ to have a look.

An earlier thread mentioned the RNLI & active reflectors (See-Me), the RNLI Atlantic 21/75s use these on all of their craft now.

I think though the overall point here is fairly straight forward in that passive reflectors are pretty useless on a RIB but the MCA has stated it wants to see them on a boat if it can feasibly carry one. A RIB (with an A frame) must fall into this category so the only question is fit one or run the risk of prosecution should you have an accident. The chap in Weymouth who ran his cruiser up the rocks (and in many ways has highlighted some of these unknown rules) was prosecuted for having no up to date charts on board amongst other things and showed how keen the MCA is to enforce certain rules in certain situations. Having been on the receiving end of an MCA spot check in Poole a couple of weeks ago they are certainly getting out and about

Interestingly though I have heard nothing from the RYA yet re school boats re things like radar reflectors but have erred on the side of caution by fitting them even to the 4m RIB

Paul

[Pete7]

Just e mailed the MCA and asked them to reply to this forum, we shall see. Perhaps a few others might like to send them an e mail asking for there answers to this thread. The link for MCA is :

http://www.mcagency.org.uk/index.htm

They started this, so let them provide the answers, but I do like the idea of hundreds of active radar transponders going off in the Solent during an August bank holiday. The MCA would be well chuffed with that.

[Garygee]

Its a interesting point about active radar enhancers. This is how I was planning to go but would a lot cause more problems than it would solve.

I know you can turn then on and off and common sence would dictate only to turn on when needed. But would this make the situation less clear for ships ?.

The only saving grace is that is very unlikly that more than a haddfull of boats would have them.

Like the idea of getting the MCA involved, maybe see if we can get a responce from somone who uses radar on big shipa as well.

Regards Gary