RB4 Comments and Critique

[Alan]

OK, Vernon's excellent RB4 account plus the efforts that will follow from myself and Bangor Challenger should hopefully provoke some interesting, relavent and constructive debate on RB4 the event, long distance ribbing in small boats etc etc. As the existing thread is getting a little large! I thought I'd create a new thread for this discussion. I will also post Spirits account under a seperate thread as requested by Mr Webmaster sir!

First installment tonight, promise!

Cheers, Alan.


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[John Kennett]

Looking forward to it!

John

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John Kennett
RIBnet

[Charles]

Hope YOU are being paid, lol!

[Alan]

Paid???!! by John Kennett???? You are kidding!!

[LamacqS]

Well I must say a big well done to all those who took part in the RB4. I will confess to not having much faith in the event being completed for several reasons.
I remember enquiring about the event when it was first advertised in RIB Int. Looking at the maximum leg distance (230nm??) I thought they must be joking.. Having owned a 4.8m Ribcraft for quite a while, I agree that they are capable craft(perhaps an obvious bias!). Having used one around our shores, unless it reasonably calm or your have a big long swell, your down to approx 12knots (in a head sea) otherwise you increase the risk of damaging the boat,kit and crew. So with thoughts of 200+miles in one day at 12knots that's approx 17hrs, add to that the fuel that you would need to carry, with the mariner 60 its roughly 1ltr per nm and I didn't have any underdeck tanks, that equates to alot of fuel on deck. Alias I whimped out.
I think that as someone else has already mentioned that if it was done over a longer time and upto 120nm a leg then that would have changed my opinion altogether and I would have joined the adventure of a life time..

From the stories told so far I have a few points to throw open to debate.

Would you do it again? What would you change if you did?

The concept of 'big' support ribs - Would they be needed if the legs were shorter? I get the impression that they were invited by various entrants rather than the organisers?

I liked the idea of providing a 'paired' or buddy system where two boats looked after each other. Now that the circumnavigation is complete was this better then all sticking together as one?

To what extent were the coastguard involved?

What state are the boats and engines in now?

Did the 10 day agenda put too much pressure on the event or would doing it over 15 days taken away an element of the challenge?

Any comments from the Land crews?

What fuel consumption did you all get from the various engines? - It only seems to be honda that ever publish these.

Once again well done to all those that took part.

Regards

Steve

Brian: re your last posting - cancel your credit cards quickly or fight back with mailorder!

Vernon/Alan: Thanks for posting your addictive accounts, it beats reading about Isuzu 4x4's!!

[John Kennett]

Dear Stealth and Alan

Sorry not to have replied earlier, but I've been off counting my piles of cash. Not!

Anyway, I've come up with a great idea. Mr Stealth is so keen on people getting paid for their contributions, that he can pay them. Being a very affluent tax exile, with things like a Fairline Targa 30 in his toy box (no RIB though ), a few quid here and there would surely be no hardship


Steve

You've come up with some very interesting questions, and I'm sure that some of the entrants will have equally interesting answers!

People seem to be very divided on the subject of buddying up vs flotilla style vs going it alone. In my experience it is almost impossible to keep a good pace with a large group (or even a small one!) as everyone is held up by every slowdown/stoppage.

If one boat has to stop for ten minutes to sort out a minor problem, everyone has to wait. If you have a group of ten boats, and each boat has a ten minute unscheduled halt sometime during the day, then the group has a potential for delay of 1 hour 40 minutes. In pairs, the delay would be just 20 minutes.

Even buddy pairs don't need to run gunwale to gunwale. So long as the lead boat stops from time to time to allow the second boat to catch up, a distance of a mile or so isn't a problem in good visibility. You can see the spray from a boat in front of you for a surprising distance (until they stop, but that's another matter!), but good radio contact does make things easier.

Then again if it's really horrible you can take the extreme approach of following a larger boat very close, riding on its stern wave -- this does take rather a lot of concentration to keep up for any length of time though.

On an organised event (even on the scale of round Britain) if you do run solo you are still likely to see other participants, and if things do go wrong there is a better than normal chance of being able to call for assistance.

On balance I would go for an informal buddying system, which means looking out for each other rather than necessarily running within hailing distance all the time!

John

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John Kennett
RIBnet

[Allen]

Alan,
You haven't pissed me off yet, but you run the risk of so doing if you don't get on and concentrate on the next installment of your RB4 adventure!
Your message above raises a good point about larger boats not being welcomed with open arms. Three Isle of Man based boats (two 8 metre diesels and a VSV) had entered the Offshore Expeditions Round Britain event to run at the end of May. This was cancelled due to a low entry, and I am sure that we could all have been leant upon to join the RB4.
We did consider this as an alternative, but I had the impression that large boats were basically not welcome, yet would be expected to pick up all the pieces if anything went wrong.
Unimpressed with such arrogance we spent the week going around Scotland instead. Very nice it was too !

Allen

[Alan]

Allen, Ok Ok I'm trying to get the next installment up but work keeps getting in the way!!

Interesting point about perhaps folding in those people interested in Offshore Expeditions Round Britain into RB4. Trouble is the scepticsm from a number of quarters (including Alan Priddy & our very own John K!) that RB4 would happen, could be done safely etc etc probably ruled out any formal merging of the two events. I agree totally about the attitude of the RB4 organisers to larger boats. Brian can speak for himself but had we not have known and been involved with the Spirit guys I doubt we would have gone round with the fleet!

I'm sure the going Round Scotland was fun in its own right. If you want to repeat it next year, BIBOA is planning to stage the biannual event next year.

Another thought that occurs is would you guys from the IOM be interested in meeting up with some South West based Ribsters who are planning a cruise to Southern Ireland in Sept? Cruise will be lead by Cyanide IF Brian's arm heals in time!

Cheers,
Alan

[Grey C]

It is my belief that the ground support team provided I.E. JO was in contact with the Coastguard everyday and provided regular updates as to our situation, which if this was done as diligently as the rest of her duties is probably why we virtually heard nothing from them. On Tiger Shark we only spoke to the Coastguard once, on the way into Berwick if I recall correctly.

Russell.

[Alan]

Russell,

You may very well be right - in fact it would probably make more sense for a telephone contact with the coastguard rather than passing details of 9 boats via VHF!

Certainly when I was talking to Yarmouth Coastguard when we left Wells before the rest of the fleet (to get Cyanide over the bar before we ran out water!) they were aware of the fleet but had not been advised at that time whether we had left or what our destination was.

Any critique - intended to be constructive - of the event needs to be balanced by what went well. The Land Support supplied by Jo was outstanding!!

Cheers, Alan

[Allen]

Alan,

Southern Ireland could be fun. I'm tied up the second week in Sept - I will have a word with the others and get back to you.
They are currently enjoying a drink in Port St Mary with the adventurers from the 5 Nations Challenge.
I don't know how many boats are taking part, but they apparently pulled in to PSM around 4 this afternoon en route to Bangor (Wales) from Donaghadee.

Allen

[Alan]

I believe that using a buddy system is a prequisite on any large cruise - be it RB4 or cross channel, round the headland etc. Even if you are part of a larger group, different boats will make different speeds (due to hull design, horsepower or just the confidence/experience of the crew!) so a fleet will seperate. The key thing is to buddy with a boat of similar performance so that you are running at the same speed. As John says you don't neccessarily need to run side by side all the time but keep in visual contact and maybe have a regular radio "check in" that all is OK. And when your buddy stops you stop.

John put his finger on the issue of when one person stops everybody tends to stop in a big fleet. I'm sure Vernon will concur that this definately happened on RB4!

On the subject of support boats for an RB4 type event I believe that it is utter madness to run an event like this without some larger RIBS as support craft. As I have said in my account one small RIB cannot offer more than a dire emergency "take the crew off" type of response to a distress situation and may well put itself at risk in the process. A larger RIB can more readily tow a boat with engine failure, can take off injured crew for a more comfortable ride and provide mechanical assistance with a low risk of placing itself or its crew into danger.

RB4 effectively had only one support boat for the majority of the trip. The guys on Yes Dear did a stirling job but even they weren't without problems as towards the end of the trip they had to run flat out to overcome fuel starvation problems. The need to run at 30kts when the boats you are escorting average 20kts makes life interesting I'd have thought!

Not every RB4 team was fortunate enough to have a chap like Brian Elliot to provide what was frankly probably the ultimate in support RIBs! BUT, It was not beyond the wit of the organisers to encourage other owners of larger RIBS to join the event. This needed to be a positive - please join us and participate in the challenge, enjoy the camaraderie etc etc vein as opposed to the "your welcome to come if you want but we expect you to pay the same entry fee and of course provide search and rescue services as required!" Personally I think Brian and Carl deserved to be PAID for their participation rather than being charged for the priviledge!
(Although neither was looking for this of course.) Anyway I'll get off my soapbox now before I offend someone!

RB4 had 9 entrants of which 7 finished with two support boats. I believe the event really needed 3, possibly 4 support RIBS to provide a reasonable level of safety cover. In the event, 2 (and 1 for most of the time) was enough - which was largely due to calm weather and luck! And of course the professionalism and commitment of the RB4 entrants themselves!

Coastguard involvement. Weeellll I don't know for sure but I rather suspect that NO daily passage plans were filed by the event as a whole with the coastguard. Can't confirm this for sure as for most of the time we weren't running with the fleet. It is an impression I get both from Vernon's comments and my own conversation with Yarmouth Coastguard whilst filing Spirit/Cyanides flightplan from Wells to Ramsgate!

Ok, I've probably pissed enough people off now so I'm going to shut up and let others have a say.

Cheers,
Alan

[dja]

If it's a race, then it's a race. Surely you go it alone with yourself and your vessel as well equipped as possible/feasible/necessary for independence?

If it's a cruise in company then you all stick together and help each other/strength in numbers or whatever.

Before going RB or cross channel you will need a degree of ability which only comes with time and experience.

D

[Brian]

I very much welcome this forum as an opportunity for all of us to learn from the event. My comments, in no particular order are;
1. Always call the coastguard when setting out AND arriving. Cummon, you know it makes sense. It also makes me feel much easier that a group of professionals are at least partly in the picture if something goes wrong. Imagine your embarrassment, or worse, if something went wrong, got worse because of lateness in help arriving and then admitting that you didn’t tell anyone of your plans. You would deserve a smack round the back of the head wouldn’t you?
2. Totally understand the frustration of moving at the speed of the slowest guy in a pack. Would recommend you pick a buddy boat and people that you can empathise with, and then pair with them.
3. Agree with Alan that more safety boats should be available for tough event like RB4. I am SURE that many larger boats would have joined part or the entire event, if they were made to feel more welcome.
4. Skippers MUST be more assertive when attending skippers briefings and at other critical moments. It takes more guts to say “no” than to be swept along with the group. An example was Bangor Challenger taking the very tough decision to return to Newlyn for more fuel. With hindsight had they carried on, we now know, there would have been a serious problem later on that night. So full marks to them.
5. The interesting dichotomy is of course, that despite RB4 being a challenge and not a race, there is nevertheless an enormous pressure on skippers to keep up with the schedule and/or not to be left behind the main group. This is partly balanced by the very fact that it is this pressure which gives the impetus to achieve/succeed/go that extra mile and without which probably many boats would not have gone all the way round.
6. Finally I thought Hugo put a lot on the line. If had been a disaster, he would have been blamed, and this business is his hobby and his profession don’t forget. Many were saying it shouldn’t have been proposed/wasn’t well organised/potentially dangerous etc. Well it did happen, it was successful and I saw a hell of a lot of guts, determination and sheer bloody minded resolve displayed which has made a very positive impression on me. Yes, we were lucky with the weather but in more general terms I have always found the harder you try the luckier you get. I say if it had of gone pear-shaped it would have been OUR fault. Hugo didn’t hold a gun to anybody’s head and force them out to sea did he?

[Brian]

Contact details anyone?
I am trying to organise a S. an W. Ireland cruise 2nd week in September and would like to make e-mail contact with:
-any crew member from Yes Dear
-Jan Falkowski
-anyone else who may wish to join in an easygoing, sociable cruise, around this beautiful part of the world

[Alan Mckewan]

Alan, got youre email about this event. A few NI ribs will tow down to SE Ireland and meet you for the run. Keep us posted.

[seajay]

Currently without a boat.

But if anyone wants a 'contributing' crew member looking to gain more RIB experience then I'd be very pleased to join the trip.
cjh@hume100.freeserve.co.uk

Chris

[Alan]

Brian,

Jan F's details are in the Biboa directory. I'll look them up tonight and email you.

Cheers,
Alan

[Powerboat]

Brian ,

Just back from a week in the UK.

Got your mail re Kinsale based cruise and will be in touch

Best wishes ,

Stuart www.powerboat.org

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www.powerboat.org

[Alan Priddy]

Brian

Can you e-mail me details of your event? I may come over, only may at this stage.

Alan Priddy