Regulation of UK Leisure Boating - a good idea?

[bingosucks]

really interesting read
i`m generally in favour of regulation but fear it will cost an arm and leg
i wonder if a scope of use could be introduced, with people at the lower level i.e

kayakers,surfers and sibbers (waiting for it lol) able to self certify.
a simple tick sheet could be introduced showing that you have the basics of safety and commonsense

i wonder what qualifactions those donuts had when they failed to tie the kill cord on, or what precautions the kayakers took on being rescued on the last sibfest

but again policing is the issue as you have to show insurance etc at a boat ramp and sweet fa if launched from a beach

i`ve found the rnli chaps are more than talkative and already do a sea talk ,i`m sure a lot more people would be willing to give to these guys than the rya ,though i feel there prices are quite fair !

[ALANT]

Regulation, Laws, Directives

Yes Yes Yes we need more of them.
Oh yes it will stop the Idiots. The same "Type" of people who drink drive will still do it they don't care, the same type of people who as in C2 Ribs example smash there boat into other peoples property will still do it they don't care.

Using commercial examples of random drug/drink screening is a waste of time the people lose there jobs but they still do it. Don't they? or why screen?

Regulation will happen come time, there is probably some Eurocrat at work right now beavering away trying to take another bit of our freedom away.

Oh and the piece of law they get charged with is usually Drunk and disorderly.

As for interesting thread NO

[tonto]

Originally Posted by BruceB

Some folk keep banging on about how car use has got this and that and therefore it should easily apply to boats.
These laws only apply to vehicles on the public highway, take the vehicle a few yards to the side off road and nothing applies, not even needing a licence.

The sea is more in line with the land off road which is by far more of the land area than public roads.
If you want to use land use as an example then the only parts you may be able to make an argument over regulation are harbour areas controlled as such, these are a very tiny part of the water and in most cases are not even acessed to get to the water.
The rest of the water is equivalent to off road land.

And no, I am not a member of the RYA either!

Not true.

On PRIVATE land you can drink and drive and do whatever you want in a car, but even off a highway on PUBLIC access land the laws apply AFAIK, but this is a moot point, as the sea is PUBLIC access. there is not one square meter that is designated for private use. (you cannot buy area's of the sea) so therefore is open to all, and therefore everyone is at risk.

It is down to a matter of public use, not off road/on road. I make the analogy with traffic laws because people seem to accept that we have drink driving laws, and drink driving is considered antisocial, and no one argues that they should be scrapped.

Boating takes place on public access water, involving other users, and and within the territorial waters (12 miles) subject to national laws (outside 12 miles you are subject to the laws of the country of registry) and affect other people, and as far as I can make out from the official statistics i have seen, there are more boating deaths per mile travelled than on the road.
Therefore to make the sea safer there should be somer form of basic training, and regulation as we do not have any at all!

[tonto]

Originally Posted by ALANT

Regulation, Laws, Directives

Using commercial examples of random drug/drink screening is a waste of time the people lose there jobs but they still do it. Don't they? or why screen?

Oh and the piece of law they get charged with is usually Drunk and disorderly.

As for interesting thread NO

Actually skippers who get caught on commercial vessels drunk normally never get a job on a vessel ever again. Full stop. The MCA (if they are British) would normally revoke the certificate of competency as well, so he cannot in any form work on a ship. EVER.

No company would employ a skipper with a criminal conviction for being drunk in charge. I am not advocating such draconian approach to lesiure craft, more of a deterrent. A fine and suspension of certificate of training perhaps???

The screening is there to stop people doing it in the 1st place.

As for drunk and disorderly, your having a laugh surely
If it was such a good piece of legislation use it instead of the drink driving laws. It is a pretty toothless piece of legislation, normally resulting someone getting a minor slap on the wrists. I am unable to find a single report of someone being found drunk and disorderly in charge of a boat.

And if the post is so boring, easy, dont read it!

[tonto]

Originally Posted by PeterM

My 2p worth ...


My local example - Poole harbour is a fairly well 'policed' ( not so much by the police but the harbour authority etc ) but the chances of someone being spoken to for being smashed on booze or having no insurance or qualifications is bugger all.

I imagine much the same for most similar/ popular places? It is for most harbours I go in and out of in a boat.

Again reading the MAIB reports the harbourmasters are responsible for setting and enforcing local bylaws, however due to the lack of a national law many of the harbourmasters have been advised it is very difficult, and highly unlikely to secure a conviction for being drunk in charge of a boat, therefore do not enforce it.

Again, as said by the MCA, most harbourmasters would enforce a national law, as it would be tried and proved in the courts.

Job done, and if you know and are aware that so many people are drunk on a boat then surely it is something we need to address, rather than ignore? I am not saying you need to address it, but it must be common knowledge then?

[Anchorhandler]

Don't worry Tonto....

In a few years time we'll bring this thread up again. Hopefully by then there will be a little emoticon holding a banner saying " I told you so"

Mark my words guys....it is definately comming and the sooner you get used to the idea the sooner you will all look back and realise how much of a good thing it was to introduce it, like......

The seatbelt law
The drink drive limits for car drivers
The no use of a mobile phone while driving law
The smoking ban in restaurants/planes and other confined public spaces
Mandatory child seat/booster seat in cars for young children
Any other law that protects ourselves from ourselves...

No one likes laws or regulations that interfere with our personal habits but sometimes you just have to admit that its for the better....

Pretty much all the arguments used in this thread against the introduction of training/education and a boating alchool limit would have been used to argue any of the above existing laws. "Its not needed", "it's difficult to regulate/enforce", "it interferes with my personal freedom"....but how many of you would argue against these laws now??

Simon

[tonto]

Thanks simon,

I must admit to being a little surprised at some of the negative reaction, and thank all the comments in support, but I do understand that people fear change, and do not like it.

However as you say it will happen, and anyone who is being safe and who has taken the effort to get at least rudimentary training will have nothing to fear, or worry about.

Thanks for the supoport!

Tonto

[Anchorhandler]

Originally Posted by tonto

Thanks simon,

I must admit to being a little surprised at some of the negative reaction, and thank all the comments in support, but I do understand that people fear change, and do not like it.

However as you say it will happen, and anyone who is being safe and who has taken the effort to get at least rudimentary training will have nothing to fear, or worry about.

Thanks for the supoport!

Tonto

Not very often a Ginger Beer agree's with a Window Watcher eh? .. :-)

Have a safe voyage...

Simon

[tonto]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

Not very often a Ginger Beer agree's with a Window Watcher eh? .. :-)

Have a safe voyage...

Simon

Not often at all.

I am stuck here till 1st week of Sept. Anchored off Brunei at the moment. Took delivery of this thing in December, and still no cargo, the export terminal has been delayed, and is having problems, so it's hurry up and wait.

At least we get to see the grand prix this weekend if it aint rained off, and the olympics at the end of the month if we are still here. all courtesy of BBC, (Brunei Broadcasting Company!)

Have a safe trip for yourself if you are on board, or good vacation if not.

[Anchorhandler]

Originally Posted by tonto

Have a safe trip for yourself if you are on board, or good vacation if not.

I'm at work but am more office based now...left "deep sea" about 5 years ago....Far too many unnecessary rules and regulations

Anyway, " Engine: turbine/38,000hp " ?? I thought that due to the cost of what you were being charged for the boil off, (and the fact that much of the start of your journey was on Hfo anyway) you 'gas' boys had given up on steam preferring the more efficient stone crusher? Many Diesel engine builders these days offer "dual fuel" options allowing the engine to run on natural gas. Not sure if you could get the power out of them to meet your demands though.....

Very much off topic i know but was just curious.

Simon

[BruceB]

Originally Posted by tonto

Not true.

On PRIVATE land you can drink and drive and do whatever you want in a car, but even off a highway on PUBLIC access land the laws apply AFAIK, but this is a moot point, as the sea is PUBLIC access. there is not one square meter that is designated for private use. (you cannot buy area's of the sea) so therefore is open to all, and therefore everyone is at risk.

AFAIK the Road traffic act only applies on roads connected directly to the public road system and regarded as such. This is little Public land that would be affected, particularly up here.

This discussion is really going nowhere as there are two opposing views and neither will meet.

The only consolation is that even if regulation comes in that it will not affect me or many folk up here.
I already have way more than would be realistically be required by any legislation, there is absolutely no way of enforcing it in any of the cruising grounds I use and basically I would ignore it anyway like most of my compatriots.

If it cannot be enforced then it is of no value nor does it require being worried about

Personally I don't think anything is likely to happen anyway, particularly in Scotland as outside some small areas we just don't have the numpties running about without a clue, they wouldn't tend to last long in most of the coastal waters around the coast here....

[Anchorhandler]

Originally Posted by BruceB

Personally I don't think anything is likely to happen anyway, particularly in Scotland as outside some small areas we just don't have the numpties running about without a clue, they wouldn't tend to last long in most of the coastal waters around the coast here....

I so envy you there......

Simon