Report on the Sinking of Spirit

[jwalker]

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Alan Priddy

Jono
Whats make you think that any of the "Tube experts " know more than me. I have inspected some builders boats that the tubes are so bad I have recommended cutting the boat up as unsafe!
Alan P

Alan
That reply just about sums up the problem, arrogance this developed can only blind you to your own short falling. As far as I can see Jono was only trying to help broaden the discussion out.


I’ve been sitting on the side lines waiting for sycophants and knockers to stop taking punches at each other over this issue, but I now think it time to point out some facts that have not be discussed.

In engineering terms thing fail for two reasons 1) design flaw 2) operator error
1)
Rouge waves are not a new a new phenomena, Alan, you said that he had experienced one in 2002 and prior to that they have been discussed in the marine press as far back as the 80s in relation to bulk carrier sinkings, so you would think that the ‘best rib in the world ‘would take this into account in its design.
2)
If you are travelling at 20 knts in the dark among 4m waves and you fall in a hole surely that is operator error particularly if the boat is not up to it.

So which is it Allan No doubt you will take your usual stance of ‘you either agree with me or you are wrong’ but hay if you are right I am happy to be wrong.

Des

[Gentiana]

I wonder if Alan might elaborate a little further on the nature of damage?
Crushing forces are mentioned in Alan's report. Was the sub-structure or superstructure of the boat crushed to the extent that structural damage arose ? Or was the boat pushed so far down that the tubes were caused to part from the hull ?

Peter

[The Jackeens]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

In engineering terms thing fail for two reasons 1) design flaw 2) operator error
1)
Rouge waves ...
Des

Des would it be possible to enlarge that catalogue of possibilites to include unfortunate coincidences, unusual natural events etc. ???

Just asking. Perhaps the sea does not always respect the best of man-made draughtsmanship, planning & engineering...or seafaring techniques for that matter? I agree that we can all learn a lot from the facts. Peter has asked some helpful questions...

Surely the colour of the wave is perhaps immaterial in this case.

Missus

[Alan Priddy]

Scary Des and Gentiana. This topic never was, and never will be up for general discussion. The full and detailed report will be subject to full intergation and inspection by the powers to be.

However I do agree that if you happen to drive a boat at night in 4 metre waves at 20 knots than it proberbly would be driver error. But it was full daylight (because it dont get dark up North) a perfect down wind sea and not that rough enough to cause alarm. So no, I disagree with you that you feel it was my fault. As for construction, you had to be there to know what happend. Spirit was a tough old girl, she had been battered by bigger storms and waves than you will ever imagine without damage, and yes I agree, there has been an ongoing study about big waves for nearly 30 years, but, it was only last year that the reversed wave theory came about. and this is what I believe caused the boat to sink. (Along with over 12 fishing boats a year!)
I know my short fallings and one of the things which drives me on is to push things to the limit. I also know my job and this is the first (and hopefully the last) boat I have lost at sea and she served me well in her 200,000 mile four year life. Alan P

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Alan Priddy

Scary Des and Gentiana. This topic never was, and never will be up for general discussion.

WHY POST IT ON A FORUM THEN?????

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Alan Priddy

a boat at night in 4 metre waves at 20 knots than it proberbly would be driver error. But it was full daylight (because it dont get dark up North)

Then why didn't you see the hole?
Des

[Cuchulainn]

I don't know anyone on this forum but I have met Alan Priddy and I was impressed beyond belief.


Alan, I would cross the Atlantic with you any day of the week because I know there are few better qualified.

As for the rest of the sceptics, lets see you do it.




PS Alan, time for a visit to Redbay with the latest presentation

[The Jackeens]

Cuchulainn Abu.

We really liked the look of Rebay RIBs also. Saw one in Cork last weekend.
Maybe Alan's next boat could be a collaboration. Andre's Parker Cabin RIB looks the business too.

Us.

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Then why didn't you see the hole?
Des

Over to Port a bit!
Why?
To go around that big hole!

Des is this what you Imagen should have happened?
I think not!
Nick

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

Over to Port a bit!
Why?
To go around that big hole!

Des is this what you Imagen should have happened?
I think not!
Nick

No Nick the way you do it is to throttle back then you go gentle down the side of the wave instead of launching yourself into thin air.

But don't miss understand me, I am not saying that Alan got it wrong AND that Spirit was badly design, what I am saying is that it is one OR the other.
As someone has mentioned before sailing boats seem to manage and that is because generally speaking there speed is linked by the wind to the wave frequency it is only when you get a vessel that can exceed this that problem occur. Des

[Matt]

I've done a little bit of work on modelling a seaway b4. I think what a lot of people are missing is that the sea is not predictable. The shape and form of waves follows a distribution of probability, but the probability of any given wave size & type forming is almost never zero. Plus, every seaway in the world has a different distribution pattern. So the probability of getting hit by a 'rogue' wave (since that seems to be the term a la mode these days) is always there, it's just small.

Any number of very small factors could have prevented said rogue wave forming, or at least forming in a different way that wouldn't have placed the boat under such sever stresses to cause structural failure, but just once in a blue moon, all the factors coincide, and you're buggered. The forces the sea can produce are HUGE. Have you ever seen an oil tanker looking like a banana? It happens.

If you also bear in mind the previous conditions spirit will have endured on other expeditions, stating that spirit might not have been up to the job is ridiculous. If voyager crashed on her aerial circumnavigtion of the globe, people would have said the same. If Space Ship One had crashed on her foray into space, people would say the same. In order to learn, you have to push the envelope, and sometimes it does go wrong.

I agree with an earlier statement; I'd far far sooner see my tax £ being spent on rescuing a bunch of british guys in distress than some illegal immigrant who thinks they have a right to my money for doing nothing.

Whether you like Alan or not, he's out there doing his thing, flying the flag and helping keep England on the map, which is more than can be said for most people, myself included.

[Matt]

I think you've never been in a really really big sea.
And sailing boats regularly don't manage either. Look at Pete Goss' attempt.

Originally Posted by Scary Des

No Nick the way you do it is to throttle back then you go gentle down the side of the wave instead of launching yourself into thin air.

[The Jackeens]

Wow.

Matt...there's eloquence.

The very spooky thing about what you've just said is...

there was a blue moon... (I heard it discussed on the radio that day)

when they set off...

Missus

('there are more things in heaven and earth...')

[Bilge Rat]

I hit a cuboard door in the medway at 25 knots in broad day light....now you would have thought i could have seen and avoided that wouldn't you !!

............Shit happens !!

[The Jackeens]

Not to mention the odd fridge in the Solent...

Us

[Matt]

Wave height, shape and size is based on wind strength, fetch, time, water depth, underwater obstructions, ocean currents and the interaction of the waves with each other.

Originally Posted by Scary Des

...generally speaking there speed is linked by the wind to the wave frequency it is only when you get a vessel that can exceed this that problem occur. Des

[Manos]

Originally Posted by Alan Priddy

she served me well in her 200,000 mile four year life.

That is quite a lot of miles

[DepSol]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Then why didn't you see the hole?
Des

You dont always see holes they can just appear out of no where. There is no way any one can negotiate a rough sea without pitching down some holes at one point or another.

Dom

[chrisallse]

Originally Posted by Manos

That is quite a lot of miles

200,000.....Thats a bloody lot of miles..thats 50,000 miles a year or 1000 miles a week. At an average of 20 knots that would be 50 hours of sailing a week.....Thats almost from here to the moon..