RIB Capsize of the Needles.....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jackeen

heres a link to the whitstable capsize that i think Tim was talking about


http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/whitslb/capsize.htm


paul

That's the one that gives me the horrors every time I watch it. The new boats have bow ballast tanks fitted.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by codprawn

When I see RIBs landing off waves they are almost always stern heavy. In some cases I can quite understand why - passenger carrying boats when unladen for example.

Surely its better for the boat to be a little stern heavy than nose heavy. Nose heavy and your going to get loads of stuffs. And stern landing first seems to take out a lot of the jarring or slamming on my boat.
The problem is when a boat has been really badly designed. I know of one such boat who's owner won't admit it (He's not on RIBNET though), and although he has only two single jockeys on a 6.5 meter RIB anyone else has to sit or stand in line with the consol or in front of it. Its just a disaster waiting to happen.
Most boats are adequately designed its just that someday someone is gonna get caught out. Lets face it this is the first capsize mentioned on RIBNET for quite some time so it doesn' t happen often, thank God.
Lets all try and learn from it and that we and our boats are all fallible.

My advice when the waves are big is slow down, I know its not RIB like, and weave through the waves, which is hard work on the arms and hands.

At the end of the day although those guys capsized their RIB I bet they are glad they had a RIB to sit on with its tubes giving all that bouyancy.

Shame about the damage that has probably been caused to the engine and electronic systems.

[codprawn]

Very true - a slightly stern heavy boat is much safer 99% of the time.

Maybe we should copy what the zapcatters do - move the crew around more!!!

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by codprawn

My RIB is far from being nose happy - I deliberately didn't want 2x engines and I asked for the console to be placed further forward for better balancing.

When I see RIBs landing off waves they are almost always stern heavy. In some cases I can quite understand why - passenger carrying boats when unladen for example.

Of course in a following sea you want the bow as light as possible - normally boats are some sort of a compromise but for the ultimate in performance people fit bow ballast tanks for a good reason!!!

Study this video as a classic example.

http://www.boomeranger.fi/images/ind...conditions.mpg

Right at the start it gets very high - obviosuly with a load of passengers it would be a different story - maybe a bow ballast tank for running unladen?

http://www.zodiaccz7.com/images1/video/cz7medium.wmv

The Zodiac is better balanced than most but even that lands slightly stern first after a jump.

I'm just happy to have a nose for a rib, that make any sense? Seriously, now..
if you are out in conditions which present the threat of capsize you shouldn't be out at all, kind of stupid really don't you think? Most battles we have with the waves are won by the waves, no reason to tempt fate, all macho bullshit aside... Much bigger boats than ribs have lost the fight. I happen to own a rib which is ballasted quite nicely in the center due to two large and generally heavy fuel tanks (usually full) this seems to work quite well for the conditions we usually encounter but then I am normally not out in a blow. If you get caught out in bad weather then your experience and seamanship will be put to the test, hopefully, you will be up to the task mother nature presents!

In other words.... I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy... capesh?? (not sure I spelled that right?)

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by pathalla

if you are out in conditions which present the threat of capsize you shouldn't be out at all, kind of stupid really don't you think?

Valid comments for sure. Unless you are in a rescue service, common sense should prevail. While I think my boat is "the bomb", I remind myself that it is MY boat because the police department that owned it previously flipped it end over end after stuffing the bow... possibly with underinflated tubes.

Beyond that, I was at my dealers this past summer and they were rebuilding a Hurricane 920 that flipped as well, off the coast of Nova Scotia.

These boats are not invincible, and we need to remember that!

[Simon Hawkins]

Interesting thread and even more interesting how the majority of people think that the boat flipped. Have you thought of the possibility of the boat broaching, or even being hit beam on by a large breaking wave.

Simon

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Lets face it this is the first capsize mentioned on RIBNET for quite some time so it doesn' t happen often, thank God.

Not that long ago!
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16678

[codprawn]

Yes which is why I asked first. Makes me wonder why they don't do inboard RIBs with a canoe stern - would look a bit odd I suppose.

I know many people say you just shouldn't go out in such conditions but things can change so fast in the UK - I have seen some massive waves in the Lougher estuary when there isn't a breath of wind and everywhere is flat calm!!!

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I know many people say you just shouldn't go out in such conditions but things can change so fast in the UK - I have seen some massive waves in the Lougher estuary when there isn't a breath of wind and everywhere is flat calm!!!

Absolutely true as well. Lake Erie, which is quite shallow and runs parallel to the prevailing wind can build some very steep seas in a short time. I got caught 30+ miles out there a couple of years ago while I was diving. There was a nice 1' chop when I left the boat and about 7' - 8' seas when I got back in 90 minutes later. These waves are not tall by UK standards I appreciate, but they are very close, steap and breaking. It was a very unpleasant (and slow) ride back in!

[codprawn]

Short steep waves can be horrible - I have been out in 15 - 20' big Atlantic rollers and it was great fun - you can "drive" them - we hardly even got wet. Another time it was waves like you mentioned - we were being thrown all over the place and got soaked - still good fun though!!!

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

Interesting thread and even more interesting how the majority of people think that the boat flipped. Have you thought of the possibility of the boat broaching, or even being hit beam on by a large breaking wave.

Simon

A broach is more threatening, beam to the sea will roll you quickly given enough wave height and a break...

[pathalla]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Absolutely true as well. Lake Erie, which is quite shallow and runs parallel to the prevailing wind can build some very steep seas in a short time. I got caught 30+ miles out there a couple of years ago while I was diving. There was a nice 1' chop when I left the boat and about 7' - 8' seas when I got back in 90 minutes later. These waves are not tall by UK standards I appreciate, but they are very close, steap and breaking. It was a very unpleasant (and slow) ride back in!

the short chop 3-5 beats you to death, that ride back had to really suck Stoo... 7 to 8 footers running close together? Would take a really big rib to handle it well, 40+ feet as my guess.. What would you think Stoo? The ideal size given the short, narrow confused seas we get on the lakes...I have been out where it seems the waves seem to be coming from all directions, you just get the living shit beat out of you, no fun at all!

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Short steep waves can be horrible - I have been out in 15 - 20' big Atlantic rollers and it was great fun - you can "drive" them - we hardly even got wet. Another time it was waves like you mentioned - we were being thrown all over the place and got soaked - still good fun though!!!

I agree - best of all is when we have had a gale for 2 or 3 days and then flat calm, was out a couple of months ago like that, about a 3m swell rolling in and absolutely calm winds, great fun. Unknown to me some relatives were watching from the shore and were having kittens because I kept disappearing and they thought I had sunk

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by pathalla

that ride back had to really suck Stoo...

It did indeed. The only good thing was that once we got around Long Point, we were taking them on our starboard quarter. We had to watch our speed so we didn't roll over too far, but it was better than getting the waves right in the teeth. It was also dark for most of the trip in which didn't help any... It made it difficult to predict the wave sequences... or see those pesky gas well-heads!

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

Interesting thread and even more interesting how the majority of people think that the boat flipped. Have you thought of the possibility of the boat broaching, or even being hit beam on by a large breaking wave.

Simon

No Simon she flipped driving into a head sea.

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by codprawn

When I see RIBs landing off waves they are almost always stern heavy. In some cases I can quite understand why - passenger carrying boats when unladen for example.

ur missing the point and once again your stereo typing! try a ride in a pascoe sr8, (batboat hull) they will almost never lift the nose!!! its the hull or the sea not the fact its a rib, sr8s are notorious in following seas however! only comment i have ever heard is that some ribs being lighter than some hard boats can catch the wind underside more but i cant back it up! MY mates sr8 had 150ltr bow tank, he never ever used it! if you have a well balanced or dynamic boat there is less chance it is needed! if your boat is well balanced why you worried about a bow tank? my old one was beamy and great in followin sea but not so in head sea! bag of sand always helped in the solent!

[codprawn]

I am not missing the point at all - unless the RNLI are also missing the point when they asked for bow ballast tanks to be fitted. It is all about weight distribution. In a following sea you want as much weight aft as possible to stop a stuff - in a head sea you want weight forward to keep the nose down. I may never use my bow tank either - but if caught out in really extreme conditions there may be a time when it is rather handy!!!

As to catching the wind more a RIB obviously will as it has nice big tubes around it - conversly they also help cushion a hard landing due to the larger surface area.

Besides which I can only just about cope with ONE keyboard never mind 2!!!

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by codprawn

conversly they also help cushion a hard landing due to the larger surface area.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by gtflash

Logical answer please.

Obviously the greater the surface area the slower an object will fall down to wind resistance - or don't the laws of physics apply any more?

[Biggles]

But in reality will that slow down be of any appreciable difference that your actually going to notice any difference in this case.