RIB Crash - Skipper gets 4 months - Page 2

Rogue Wave · 04 August 2005, 02:17

Kieron is a friend of ours. and I hope he still will be after this post. The bouy was unlit and had been there for years (30 +) and was marked on the chart.

When this happened we were obviously upset and concerned and the night after I went out in our Scorpion to Cowes and came back at 15 knots and I did not see this bouy until I was 30 metres to the port of it. ( even though I knew it was there).

It is my understanding that amongst the crew there were at least 4 local PBI which must indicate that prior to the accident they were having a good old time as nobody piped up!

The actions ignored three of the basic rules of the colregs ,IRPCS. and as such he can offer no excuse that would stand up in law, whatever the circumstances and as such will be punished. I think his sentence was quite light considering the actual harm that was done to himself and his passengers. Having said that I am happy for him that it was a relatively light sentenced.

I guess it would not hurt to put a light on the bouy but until then proper planning and safe speed at night innit.

codprawn · 04 August 2005, 03:49

I do find it rather hard to believe that such things can be left unlit in this day and age of "risk assesments"!!!! Maybe the people responsible for the buoy should go to jail as well...........

Roger · 04 August 2005, 09:12

Quote:

Watching the plotter will bugger your night vision ... unless you do it with 1 eye shut!

I have read that this is why in the old days, pirates used a black eye patch to make one eye ultra sensitive to light. The eye under the patch was used for night vision.
Perhaps we should start wearing them again.

jlanng · 04 August 2005, 10:02

Red light is good for preserving night vision... if you put some red film over the screen it should help - provided your plotter has a black and white mode

brucehawsker · 04 August 2005, 11:39

Re night vision - my navigator - wife - focusses on the chart, sitting on the pod. I am standing at the helm and can't see it unless I try to. We have both the plotter and the depth finder on their dimmest setting.

I actually keep wondering if a sunseeker is bearing down with a flood light becasue of the white nav light on the a frame.

Also two other adults looking out, one astern!

Andy · 04 August 2005, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Re night vision - my navigator - wife - focusses on the chart, sitting on the pod.

Brilliant another good use for a wife. JOKE!!

I think that accident was bad luck to a big degree (I am sure the cox was not useless). I am local, I know the solent and have have much experience at night, yet over the past few years have had at least 2 close calls with unlit objects. Yes one was charted, however I do not sit there looking at the plotter, I use my eyes and a routeplan and am looking for other boats, which are not on your plotter. I knew the thing was there and still almost hit it.

It was an unlit "Big" main channel marker in the solent, however I had briefed my passengers to keep their eyes forwards and look for black objects. They tend to look blacker than the water, and one of them called it out. Trouble is by the time you see them you are on top of them, but with less speed you have more chance of taking action.

Any one of us, no matter how experienced can get caught out and could end up in this situation. It's a real shame this guys life has been so messed up, when his intentions where to take a few mates for a relaxing evening watching fireworks and having a bit of fun. Could happen to any of us.

My question stands, why did the court think this was worth 4mths, was there something else the guy was doing like travelling at 50knts!

fred bolton · 04 August 2005, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlanng

Red light is good for preserving night vision... if you put some red film over the screen it should help - provided your plotter has a black and white mode

These might help http://www.kitbag.com.au/prod288.htm although the chartplotter may then blind you

fred bolton · 04 August 2005, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred bolton

These might help http://www.kitbag.com.au/prod288.htm although the chartplotter may then blind you

Perhaps U could use one lens looking for unlit Buoys and leave the other to scan the plotter this should well and truly confuse your brain

thebigrib · 04 August 2005, 14:50

i always lean to a well thought out and planned trip. always be cautious at night and have the patience to go slow as there are many obstacles out there. i think it is even more relevant when you think you know a stretch of water, folk become lazy and thus have an accident. Do'h!

plan plan plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bilge Rat · 04 August 2005, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

What makes you think that he was inexperienced and unqualified?

John

JK was quoting in general and cast no aspertions over anyones ability to operate any form of water craft, mearly generalising on this occassion.

Islander · 04 August 2005, 19:57

Kieron is a good chap with years of experience. He has skippered for us many times with a professional attitude and much experience.
He has run a professional company and has done many boat tests for the commercial market. It was a very unfortunate experience and I feel for him.
That buoy has not been serviced for many years and is very close to the shipping channel. I feel he has been made a guinea pig for others ahead.
I very much feel for the friends who were travelling in the rib and very much for the ones who were hurt, but I do feel the outcome was very harsh.
My opinion only. You do have friends Kieron.

John Kennett · 04 August 2005, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge Rat

JK was quoting in general and cast no aspertions over anyones ability to operate any form of water craft, mearly generalising on this occassion.

Really?

Perhaps you ought to re-read your original post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge Rat

this dick then with the proper training might not have hit the bouy in the first place !

Compulsory training and licensing for leisure boaters would have done nothing to prevent this incident. It has no relevance.

John

ashbypower · 04 August 2005, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

Kieron is a good chap with years of experience. He has skippered for us many times with a professional attitude and much experience.
He has run a professional company and has done many boat tests for the commercial market. It was a very unfortunate experience and I feel for him.
That buoy has not been serviced for many years and is very close to the shipping channel. I feel he has been made a guinea pig for others ahead.
I very much feel for the friends who were travelling in the rib and very much for the ones who were hurt, but I do feel the outcome was very harsh.
My opinion only. You do have friends Kieron.

Totally agree Kieron has done work for us on a couple of occasions, and I can only say he's very experienced and professional. And I second your sentiments "You do have friends Kieron."

Brian

Biggles · 04 August 2005, 22:48

Although I don't know the skipper involved and the full circumstances involved. It would seem this poor guy has probably got more of a jail sentence than:-

1) A Paedophile.

2) An illegal immigrant with no insurance killing someone with a car.

3) Somebody slashing someone with a knife.

4) A parent going on holiday and leaving there kids behind to fend for themselves.

The list seems endless and by the end of this year will probably included a failed suicide bomber who Cherie Blair has defended.

I rest my case.....

Milan · 05 August 2005, 11:27

If I order a skip to romove rubbish and it has to be placed in the road and not on my drive the skip hire company have to place lights on it to warn drivers of its presence to do this they have to apply to the local council for a permit which I have to pay for in addition to the skip a lot of trouble I thing you Would agree but if it stops a car driver runing in to it and killing them selves its a small price to pay but some one can place a 20 ton buoy in a very busy shipping channel with no lights simply because they have registerd it seems to me the wrong person is in jail or is it the little person getting kicked in the teeth by the big corporations ????

Jimbob · 05 August 2005, 12:46

it seems that way, but its on the chart and it has not moved so there is a reference, the skip has no reference....but i do agree that some bouys seem to be placed without lights when they could really do with one. Cowes as i remember has a big ship bouy, which i came very close to hitting in a yacht one night

Rogue Wave · 05 August 2005, 12:51

I do not agree. There are ruks if the road which if followed would have prevented this. the collison damage would have been a lot less at a safe speed!

Presumably you live in a 30 MPH limit how would you feel if somebody died hitting your skip at 60 mph , you wouldd probably say it wa there own fault for speeding. I certainly would and I am a kind and generous guy (alledgedly!)

Are you actually saying it is ok to crash into bouys just cos they are unlit!

If any good comes out of this then maybe somebody may thing about making deformable steelwork or even seat rests that fold forward under impact

AS I said previously Kierons a mate but I think he was in the wrong

Jimbob · 05 August 2005, 14:51

Rogue

Nope i am not saying that . In an earlier post i made some comments

"Running into a buoy at night, things spring to mind like, but not limited to

1) Passage plan, e.g to miss such things and checking where you are
2) Safe speed
3) If you are not sure then stop and find out where you are

a bit of basic care, at 30 knots in the dark is quite fast and needs skill, well i think it does anyway"

My other comment was that some bouys whilst on the chart and unlit - possibly suffer from a common sense rule, e.g why put a bouy unlit close to the main channel - this is just an example.

I have instructed many people on Ribs and larger vessels and to be honest following a few simple IPRCS rules has always prevented issues for me at night

Pete7 · 05 August 2005, 15:11

I think the really sad part of all this is for the rest of his life, Kieron is going to have to live with the fact that he seriously hurt himself, his girlfriend and 3 other close friends in an accident that could have been avoided.

Pete

Simon B · 05 August 2005, 15:58

This is all grim stuff I'll be starting to learn ribbing at night soon and will always remember this, same also for the accident posted a few days ago in Scotland.

I feel heartely sorry for the skipper who made the error, there are some parallels with cars etc but it isn't directly translatable. Illumination has been discussed but its not like a road from which deviation is to be avoided. In the same vein one would struggle to illuminate large trees etc near the road, sadly as we witness each day, large imovable objects do kill all to readily.

I hope his stay in prison will not be a horrible ordeal.