rib hull fiber diameter/layer number

[sameh]

Hi folks
hard time finding data about rib hull fiber diameter/layer number.

about to order RIB from china (yes china )

it is a good quality but would not hurt having more fiber to make the hull more strong. having few boats already imported of this company, there is a feeling that the sides of the keel abit week.

been advised by one of the owners of such boat who also deals with fiber repair and tube repair, still not a designer, to request 4 more layers to the 8 layers already there.
from the factory it was estimated that extra 4 layers would be about 30kg of extra weight.
the boat is 5.5 meter in length, beam 235 cm. weight estimated 200kg (originally).

would be happy to get your opinion here...

many thanks
sameh

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by sameh

would be happy to get your opinion here...



many thanks

sameh

My opinion is, that I find it worrying that you're having to tell the factory how to build the boat, how do you know that they will carry out your instructions?

Purely as an illustration, a bare 5.3m Ribcraft (other boats are available[emoji3])weighs 325KG & a 585 is 390KG, nearly double the weight of the Chinese built boat.

It's your money, but I wouldn't be in a rush to send it to the Far East.

Opinions!! You did ask[emoji4]

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

My opinion is, that I find it worrying that you're having to tell the factory how to build the boat, how do you know that they will carry out your instructions?

Purely as an illustration, a bare 5.3m Ribcraft (other boats are available[emoji3])weighs 325KG & a 585 is 390KG, nearly double the weight of the Chinese built boat.

It's your money, but I wouldn't be in a rush to send it to the Far East.

Opinions!! You did ask[emoji4]

Do you find 8 layers worrying? Lets stick to data.
Rib as it is is o.k. in my opinion, but would be much better with more fiber layers.
Question is if 8 layers is standard? If 12 is standard or what.
I agree though that 200 is less than standard.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by sameh

Do you find 8 layers worrying? Lets stick to data.
Rib as it is is o.k. in my opinion, but would be much better with more fiber layers.
Question is if 8 layers is standard? If 12 is standard or what.
I agree though that 200 is less than standard.

No idea about number of layers, that's irrelevant. What I find worrying is that you feel the need to beef up a boat that you haven't even bought yet. Even with the extra reinforcement, it will still only be just over half the weight of a known, well constructed hull.
It just says something about the general quality of the goods, if you need to do this at this stage. What is the rest of the finish going to be like? There have been enough horror stories told on here over the years regarding Chinese RIBS, one only last week. There's a good reason that they are competitively priced.

[breezeblock]

it sounds like a flimsy piece of crap that I would be very concerned about especially when most other boats are around the low 300kg mark 100+ kg is a big shortfall and they might not add it in the correct place have a look at the maib report about the rib that broke the nose of it

[sameh]

See lease text about the factory:
"3. FRP Material:

A.Resin and Gel-coat material: ASHLAND

B.PVC core replace plywood in hull,stronger,lighter and more waterproof.the traditional plywood is easy to distort and delaminate from fiberglass.

4. Manufacture technology:

Vacuum absorption to make high intensity and tenacity"

Could this be the reason for lighter weight?
Do you know if uk ribs are made of wood+fiber or similar wood alternatives?

[Bigtalljv]

foam core actually requires more fiberglass, hence more weight, than plywood. I frequent a DIY boat forum and people repeatedly ask if they use foam core will it be lighter and generally the answer is no.

You asked a crowd here is that are not fans of Chinese boats so i doubt you'll get any positive answers. And when it comes to engineering a boat hull it's rarely about just adding more material. One way to look at it was if there was a better way, faster cheaper stronger, then everyone would be doing it. Boats are something that have had every combination of things tried.

Jason

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

foam core actually requires more fiberglass, hence more weight, than plywood. I frequent a DIY boat forum and people repeatedly ask if they use foam core will it be lighter and generally the answer is no.

You asked a crowd here is that are not fans of Chinese boats so i doubt you'll get any positive answers. And when it comes to engineering a boat hull it's rarely about just adding more material. One way to look at it was if there was a better way, faster cheaper stronger, then everyone would be doing it. Boats are something that have had every combination of things tried.

Jason

Thanks
Still, any idea about fiber thickness in usual ribs? Any way measurable except for weight indication?

[jeffstevens763@g]

Look on YouTube XsRibs build that's how it should be built gives layers etc it's on a recent thread leaking xs fuel tank

Cheers

[sameh]

Originally Posted by breezeblock

it sounds like a flimsy piece of crap that I would be very concerned about especially when most other boats are around the low 300kg mark 100+ kg is a big shortfall and they might not add it in the correct place have a look at the maib report about the rib that broke the nose of it

You could be right. Most of you are in an area where boats are locally produced and are the best.. so only bad reputaion about chinese ribs are heared off ( where most of cases they are lime that), although some chinese products are well built and have some people to defend them in europe.

As for the one i am willing to buy, i am no expert but i have seen similar boats here being few years in a good shape and have been highly ranked by boat expert..anyway, i am taking my chances here and wont back off[emoji4] lets talk in a couple of years later.
My main interest is not getting advice not to buy the boat but actually getting some numbers about width of fiber hull and number of layers used..still no answer for this..
I

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

foam core actually requires more fiberglass, hence more weight, than plywood. I frequent a DIY boat forum and people repeatedly ask if they use foam core will it be lighter and generally the answer is no.

You asked a crowd here is that are not fans of Chinese boats so i doubt you'll get any positive answers. And when it comes to engineering a boat hull it's rarely about just adding more material. One way to look at it was if there was a better way, faster cheaper stronger, then everyone would be doing it. Boats are something that have had every combination of things tried.

Jason

Where was in factory quote written foam core? Is it the pvc core?
Foam replaces wood?

[breezeblock]

Originally Posted by sameh

You could be right. Most of you are in an area where boats are locally produced and are the best.. so only bad reputaion about chinese ribs are heared off ( where most of cases they are lime that), although some chinese products are well built and have some people to defend them in europe.

As for the one i am willing to buy, i am no expert but i have seen similar boats here being few years in a good shape and have been highly ranked by boat expert..anyway, i am taking my chances here and wont back off[emoji4] lets talk in a couple of years later.
My main interest is not getting advice not to buy the boat but actually getting some numbers about width of fiber hull and number of layers used..still no answer for this..
I

I am not knocking Chinese built stuff I buy quite a lot of stuff in from china but when it comes to boats most of what I have seen and heard isn't particularly encouraging good luck with your purchase

[Bigtalljv]

Originally Posted by sameh

Where was in factory quote written foam core? Is it the pvc core?
Foam replaces wood?

That would be my assumption.

Jason

[jeffstevens763@g]

XS hull 30+ laminates in each hull that will be pretty much the norm

[69cmw]

Sounds like a pile of Chinese shite to me ....

[GuyC]

Sameh

You must have a thick skin to keep coming on an enthusiasts forum to ask for objective rather than subjective technical information.

There is a whole world of information on Google - some correct, some incorrect.

For a mat such as 600 gsm chopped strand mat, each layer will be about 1mm thick.

My Pac 22 (which is not normal) has a single skin which is around 6mm thick. The key thing is that it has a multitude of longitudinal and transverse strength members which cuts the panel size down. I suspect that I could reduce the laminate thickness down to 3mm lets say and there would still be sufficient strength and stiffness to resist the water pressure and not be floppy. The problem would be that there would be no robustness and any knock would cause damage.

I wish you luck with your build but after the comments on the fuel tank and now the hull construction, I'd be nervous.

[Last Tango]

It's not as simple as counting "layers".
Some chop strand matt is three times as thick/heavy as others depending on the application. So the only way to make any sort of crude comparison is the overall weight of the finished product. Even then, there's no guaranteeing the extra weight is the consequence of efficient use of material.

[matt h]

it is a good quality but would not hurt having more fiber to make the hull more strong. having few boats already imported of this company, there is a feeling that the sides of the keel abit week.

Ha Ha, What a crock of shite..Only fools part with their money for a chinese rib.. dont walk away fella run like f##k.

Ask them if it cames with BBQ sauce?


Maximus knows about Chinese Ribs. MAXIMUS. whats your take on this dodgy purchase?

[Poly]

The number of layers is irrelevant unless you know the type of material and how well it is applied. you have a feeling the sides of the keel are weak - why would you stick to a builder who is making poor boats?

If you thought the logistics and paperwork of getting a boat from Scotland to Israel was too much, wait till you try to arrange the warranty repair in china.

[Poly]

Sameh, have you considered an aluminium hull? They *might* be an exception to the avoid Chinese ribs rule. I am sure there will be good Chinese hull manufacturers (tornado were making hulls there for a while), but they won't need you to tell them how to do it - the naval architect who produced the technical file for the CE mark will already have done it, and they'll be reluctant to deviate from his plan. Don't assume though that because it has a CE mark it has been done properly, it's a weakly enforced regulatory system.