RIB International

[Kempy]

Dear Julian

Thank you for your comments too.

Kind regards
Kempy

[narked]

If 70% of your readers drive 4x4's, why do writeups on them? It's an article that 70% don't need because they have a 4x4, and the other 30% don't want because they'd rather read about RIBs.

I disagree with the idea that we're having a go at you behind your back. It's just a discussion between like minded people, wondering if other's believe the same. Ok, so this isn't an RI forum, but it's not a profit making site. This forum isn't a commercial magazine, it's the online equivalent of us sitting in the pub having a chat, discussing the things which we have an interest in.

Now I haven't even read a single issue of RI, for a number of reasons. Firstly I don't have my own RIB, I'm 17 and can't afford one. The only time I go out in a RIB is when I go diving with the dive club. And it also seems the only way I can get it is to buy a subscription online, and once I've paid for the year, I'm stuck with a year's worth of whatever you choose to publish, which a lot of people seem to see as adverts. I can see the latest 4x4 by turning on the TV, or going to one of the many sites that has a vast number of popup ads, and it doesn't cost me a penny. Currently rib.net covers everything I'm after. I can see what people think of boats, equipment, places. I can ask them their opinion on different matters. And it doesn't cost me a penny.

However, if RI was to make a few changes based on the suggestions that people have put forward in this thread and others, then yeah, I'd see it as worth the money. No doubt the article that Keith is working on will be very interesting, one man and his little boat braving the cold waters off Scotland. If I had my own boat and more experience, I'd write stuff myself, but currently I have nothing of value that I could write for your magazine.

Just keep reading this thread and look out for others, don't say we should call you or write to you, instead consider reading this forum to be "market research". It's hardly going to kill you to spend a few minutes each day having a quick read is it?

Ta,
Matt

[HugoMS]

Julian

You only need to speak with Alan's PR lady, Nadia, to know that we have been supportive to Alan's Round the World adventure. Alan's friends and family were welcomed to RIBEX to raise funds over the weekend at a time when the project was in desperate need of finances, and we prompted visitors to our website on our front page to go to the Spirit website (providing a link) to make donations to help support the attempt.

Sadly and strangely, we have never been supplied editorial and photography to publish.

Hugo

[TIM]

Hugo , I used the link on you site to donate funds twice to the sprit project and buy the book (very good read) I wouldnt have done if the link wasnt there.

BUT to say no editoral or pictures were supplied is a bit of a laugh, the biggest and most ambitious project done in a rib so far in the world and you dont go after it!!! , that is a bit of a lame one.

By the way I think RI is a good mag and I will continue to subscride for the for seeable future. Every thing needs improving and it will over the next year or so, I am sure.

[wavelength]

for a mag that people find little to read in this thread has developed a lot of interest. The MD of one firm said to me that they did not have complaints-they were opportunities to interact with their customers. So we had a lot of interaction which will undoubtedly result in a (or an even) better magazine with renewed editorial awareness of the things people want and dont want to see and an awareness that we can all submit pieces which will be seriously considered for publication. Is it finished now?
Dave M

[John Kennett]

Originally posted by Kempy
If you want to talk to someone about your criticsms about RIB International you should be talking direct to the person(s) involved rather than talking behind their backs.
If people want to put their ideas forward about the magazine you won't get anything done by just "moaning" and "Whinging" about us on here.

There's no need to be rude or dismissive about your customers and potential customers. Nothing is being done behind anyone's back -- this is an open, public forum.

Matt's analogy is a good one. Imagine we're a group of ribsters having a chat and the topic of RIB International comes up. You're the other side of the pub, so we invite you to join in the conversation . . .

Re-read your response here. Do you think you have furthered RIB International's cause?

John

[Bittentobuggery]

What I think people have voiced on this thread is a concern over the paucity of content within RI itself that relates to the mere everyday Ribster. There’s usually some exotic feature and Hugo swanning off to road test a RIB that is completely unrealistic for the average weekend/family Ribster. I have subscribed for 3 years and the overwhelming impression that comes across to me is that RI serves as a vehicle for HMS to indulge his self-interest whilst making a decent shilling for himself. Well, fair play to him. We’d all like to do that, but the activity on this thread indicates a desire for change.

Where’s the nuts and bolts of the industry, where’s the professional journalism? I’d like to see a single item researched thoroughly and presented each month. e.g. engine manufacturers at say 100 h.p. using a 1-5 star grading system covering aspects such as cost, styling, reliability, fuel consumption, power output, all up weight, servicing, warranty, resale values, common faults etc etc, and an in depth analysis, as you find readily available within the motor industry itself.

The same could be done for hulls, consols, trailers, gps, radios, A-frames, EPIRBs drysuits, flarepacks etc etc etc and of particular importance to me right now as I’m commissioning a new boat this winter, is jockey seat manufacturers.

I think that if RI did that properly, people would keep the publication and refer back to it (that’s what advertisers want isn’t it)

When RI arrives, I eagerly tear open the plastic and turn straight to the boats for sale section where I spend 5-10 minutes studying them. That done, RI goes into the khazi where it provides light relief during evacuations.

[Kempy]

Quote originally by John Kennett :-

"There's no need to be rude or dismissive about your customer's or potential customers. Nothing is being done behind anyone's back. This is an open public forum"


Dear John

If I appeared rude and dismissive then I apologise. All I mean't to say was that it would be nice if you let us at RIB International know about any critiscms directly. I may get slightly upset when facts are, I feel, reported on here unfairly and therefore put my response over harshly, however I am loyal to RIB International and do very much believe in the magazine itself. If I have come across "rude" then this was definitely not intended. I am sure we all get "wired up" about some things people say.

At the end of the day, if you invited me into a conversation at a pub I would probably (a) say the same sort of thing, if we don't know your thoughts we can't do much. ...(sorry but that's just my opinion, good or bad) then (b) Then I would probably change the subject to how good or bad the beer was. Then (c) duck as the beer would probably get thrown over me!

Cheers,

Kempy

[Richard B]

Hugo and Jo,

I'm very pleased that you've contributed to this thread. Along with the original thread titled "magazines" it's been running since 12th September (nearly four weeks), so you're input is well overdue. IMHO this is a publication of at least equal merit and stature to RIB International, although in an electronic rather than printed format, and being biased towards reader (or member) contribution rather than editorial. That's why I'm surprised that you're not keeping a closer eye on it - let's face it, if it were a printed magazine about RIBs, you'd be looking at exactly what was being written and who's advertising!

Now I must point out that there's a word which has cropped up several times over a few postings here - "Editorial". Mike Garside, Dave Mallett, Brian, Mark Wildey and I have used the word as noun and adjective correctly, whereas Hugo, you've made a bit of a blunder by incorrectly using the noun:
"We welcome editorial from anyone who feels they can contribute..."
I think you mean "copy"? Otherwise you're welcoming "articles that give the opinions of the publishers/editors" (Penguin English Dictionary) - now despite all the accusations on these pages, you wouldn't only publish articles that reflect your views, would you?

I do agree fully with Matt and John about the up-front presentation of views. There's nothing that can be called back-stabbing about posting an article with your name next to it. And yes, the RIB community is a close-knit, but close enough (I believe) to allow differences of opinion. It would be a strange world if we all agreed all the time. I'll be happy to telephone the R.I. office with opinions on specific issues and possible contributions, but during the day I have responsibilities to my client and tight deadlines to meet, so that will only happen if and when I get quiet time. But do you really want to get that close to those members of your readership who don't agree with your views? I mean, look what happened to Salman Rushdie! (joke, btw, just in case of misunderstanding!)

To finish on a lighter note, a major corporate client of mine issued a statement to its staff after making a large number of them redundant, but not meeting the target number of redundancies. They stated that "to achieve the target staff reduction required, the reduction in numbers would be reached by a process of attrition". Now go and look that one up in the dictionary - they surely didn't mean that, did they?

Hugo and team, may you flourish and prosper.

Rich.

[Keith Hart]

That done, RI goes into the khazi where it provides light relief during evacuations.

Well, if my article is a load of c**p it will be in good company

Anyway, I'm going to have a go. I've puy MY head on the block. Anyone else willing to have a try?

I'd write stuff myself, but currently I have nothing of value that I could write for your magazine

Narked, don't do yourself down just because you are 17 and don't have a rib. Do some research. You are a diver, you go out in a rib. You could write an article about diving and RIBs. I'm sure that there are plenty of divers with opinions about RIBs you could speak to. Also a set of good pictures would help sell an article to a glossy magazine.

Hugo has said on this forum that he would welcome contributions. Try him out.

Keith (yes I do like the occasional fry up) Hart

[Richard B]

Originally posted by Keith Hart
Anyone else willing to have a try?

Keith, watch this space (I mean watch RIB International) - that's if they'll talk to me after this episode!

[narked]

I think the general idea was going to be that we would discuss matters here, very much like the little chat in the pub. As it becomes clear that quite a few of us seem to think the same, we'd probably decide that it'd be an idea to give you a ring. But that was BEFORE we noticed you sat in the corner and invited you over. You've seen the criticisms here now, so why would we need to give you a ring to tell you the same? Alright, so maybe if we came up with anything new, then yeah it'd be worthwhile.

I'd be all too happy to phone you guys up to give you my opinions on your magazine, but as I've said I've not seen it. As the only option appears to be getting a subscription, then there's no way. I'm 17, I go to sixth form college, and the little money I do have goes on my mountain bike and booze. If there was some way for me to get say the latest issue and a couple of back issues off you guys, then I'd be more than happy to read through them properly a couple of times, give you a call, and discuss possible improvements, especially on things I'm not happy with that appear to be popping up every issue. Hey you never know, It might even result in me finding a way that I can contribute to your magazine, which would be good for you guys right?

Happy to help out in any way possible,
Matt

[Kempy]

so did I get that beer thrown over me?

[narked]

Nah, beer shouldn't be wasted like that! I wouldn't throw beer on anyone, I'd drink it, then throw the empty glass at em!

[Kempy]

LOL.... nor would I!

[jools]

I'm feeling a bit of Deja Vu here with Julian and Kempy joining in.

Anyway... No publicity is bad publicity - I've just had a look at your website for the first time.

One question - why can't we buy it in WH Smith? - or a local newsagents? It does say on the website that the current issue is "For Sale" - but where.

I would like to buy a couple of copies - if I like what I see and read I may subscribe. At the moment I go into WH Smiths, have a flick through what they have and probabply end up buying Motor Boat and Yachting - or simular - because it has articles on saftey aids, passage planning - even a review of Hot Lemon - a Scorpian Rib! (and nothing about 4x4's - I already have a Freebie!)

Julian (Jools) Kemp (Kempy)

- Sorry Kieth 2 sets one line
Welcome to Rib.net Hugo - 3 posts since 10 July 2001

[thewavehumper]

Jo,

About two years ago I had to have a series of operations on my hands, the anasthetic was local and I was quite interested in what the surgeon was doing and he agreed to let me watch. He also chucked in a running commentary with his fee. The first thing he said as he was slicing through my palms was 'you have extraordinarly thick skin Stuart"

After reading your vitreolic reply to my suggestion I think that's just as well . I do think you were rude and dismissive to me ( a buying customer and a future potential advertiser). but I guess worse things have happenned to me at Sea this year.

Yes I do have a 4 X 4 in fact I have two and I buy all my spare parts from the advertisers of those magazines. MY perception remains that the 4 X 4 section is not needed.

I don't think I am a winger or a moaner and I am certainly not vituperative so I am presuming those comments were not aimed at me, be sure to let me know if they were

But what really saddens and dumfounds me is the dismissal of my suggestion that you start a thread on this forum asking for feedback and suggestion. To me it seems the perfect opportunity to get free market research and develop some level of symbiosis with an active Rib community

I look forward to your next broadside with interest

[Alan Priddy]

In responce to HMS reply to Julian. Nadia was not the PR girl on the Around the World project, she was an entusiastic supporter who did an excellent job organising our stop overs etc . The collection that HMS mentions was part of a world wide appeal that she started and was supported by many magazines and organisations from all over the world. I have not thanked Rib International for them allowing her to raise the much needed funds yet and for that I am sorry.

Hugo's comment about nothing being sent to him Re "Sadly & Strange" really highlights what the problem is with RI. Clive's daily diary was a master piece of journalisam given the conditions we were in. 35,000 words clearly demonstrating his writing skills. Because of this we have been approached by boating magazines from all over the world who want a story and are prepared to pay good money providing it is exclusive to their requirments and publication dates. The question is..............

Why would anyone want to give an arcticle away when they can sell it? Alan P

[sirzap]

Is this thread really a brain storming script session for a new sitcom? Who owns the rights to this thread? I just hope no one brings up 'Horse and Hound' magazine.

[narked]

My thoughts pretty much exactly there Alan. RI is a commercial thing, but it seems that we're pretty much expected to give our articles away (thats the impression I get from the new thread that has popped up, correct me if I'm wrong here). As a commercial magazine that we pay to read, it's hardly fair to expect a flood of free material coming from us for you to publish.

For example, a couple of years ago I was down in Cornwall with some other people from my old school's science department for the eclipse. I had been put in charge of the video camera, which was only taken to film the experiments we did during the eclipse. But we were lucky, and were in pretty much the only part of Cornwall that had a break in the clouds in just the right place for us to see the best bits. As it was school's camera and not mine, I thought "what the hell, if the camera gets broken, it's not mine!" and filmed the whole thing. So what's this got to do with anything I hear you ask. Channel 4 turned up later that day, and had heard from some of the other people on site that we had some great footage. They came over and offered us several hundred quid for about 2 minutes of shakey film taken by a 15 year old, and I don't even pay to watch Channel 4. There's no way we would have just given it to them.

That was possibly a bit more emphasized than this current thing, but the basics still apply. Writing an article takes effort and time. If we come up with something worth publishing in a commercial magazine, surely we should benefit financially from that, because after all, you as the publishers are.

Maybe I've missed the point here, and if so, then ignore everything I've said.