Rib too Rib person transfer

[timboli]

Is there any reccomended way of doing this in biggerseas?transfer was covered in my level 2 in calm water but it strikes me it could be quite hazardous in the rough.
Would tieing the boats together be a bad idea,resulting in a burst or severly damaged tube.
Are there any disadvantages to throwing a line across first attached to the transferee in case of a slip.
I know a lot would be down to individual judgement on the day but I am interested in whether there is any laid down procedure,or reccomendations-how would the RNLI go about it for instance.

[antiqueboy]

not covered on my pb2 course!

[tim griffin]

Not part of the RYA PB2 syllabus .
Is part of the safety boat syllabus

[Gray]

The RNLI use a method that is not meant to be practised very often as is quite dangerous when transfering from Inshore Lifeboat i.e. Inflatable to all weather boats. The larger boat continues in a straight line and the smaller boat puts its nose/side of nose up against the larger boat and holds it there till the transfer is done. It is quite dangerous as the smaller boat can end up in all sorts of trouble. I never had the opportunity to test this but I was told it was not to be practised away from the training centre.

I think its called pacingand I guess if you had the balls to transfer at speed then this would be the way to do it as it would go some way to ensure the two boats remained close together.

I've probably got some of that wrong and if so, someone on here with infinately more wisdom and experience will put it right!

[SDGANDER]

We don't usually do RIB to RIB at work but regular do RIB to anything from 12' to over 120'...

Easiest is to get them to maintain constant speed and course into wind if possible and we come parrallel then close and hold the nose against the other vessel, usually done on the lee side.

Tip is for the helmsman of the vessel receiving not to look as whats going on but concentrate on holding the course and speed.

And the person transferring should wait until the helm of the boat s/he is leaving says to go else you might end up in the water.

SDG.

[Paul F]

Good drill if you can do it.
RN used to train at 20knots+, once alongside if wheel set right you can even let go of the helm as pressure wave and suction keeps you alongside. Be prepare for speed increase as your boat gets sucked in alongside. bit harder on rib to rib as boat can ride up onto tube or go under tube.
Paul

[Ezgoing]

Maybe it is just me but I always thought transfering people between moving boats is a no no.

Much safer to stop the target boat come up alongside and with the tubes alongside one another slide over from one boat to the other., keeping your weight as low as possible.

best fo luck.

rgds

[benc]

I definately agree with being under way while doing the transfer.

I had a fuel system problem (dirt in fuel) a little while ago, and another rib came help me sort the problem, I had stopped my boat though, and then asked the other boat to come alongside so that he could keep me under control while I tried to sort the problem.

Once we'd realised being along side in rough water was a bad Idea, I panicked and untied the bow rope... BIG mistake... that allowed the boats to swing around and my twin engines clunked with a big a*s jet drive! not good! however - oddly, I came off relatively unscathed, a scratch on my gel coat, a scratch on the engine and a popped tube. However, was a completely seperate story with the jet drive My boat clunked the hydrolic ram and bent it

I was thinking about what was said about tying a line around the person first... it would have to be a shortline and tied up close to the bow.. otherwise the person will drag behind the boat, rope get caught in the prop and the person pulled into the prop?

[Paul Glatzel]

Timboli

Indeed what you are referring to is known as pacing. It isn't (or shouldn't) be part of a Level 2 course even at slow speed. Certainly there are times where bringing one vessel alongside another is essential although i would urge strong caution as it can be a very dangerous manouvre, evidence of this is that i understand that practice pacing is not allowed at RNLI stations but is only undertaken with training teams. Equally RYA TCs have received a specific statement to the effect that it is not to be undertaken on courses except SB.

The technique (generally speaking) is for one vessel to hold course & speed whilst the other comes alongside between the bow and stern waves. As it glides alongside then certainly in the case of a RIB the technique is to then steer toward the vessel and increase power to lock the vessels together. To break away decrease power, straighten up and gently steer away taking great care not to be caught by the stern wave (which in effect can be a breaking wave).

Around a moving vessel are high and low pressure areas and in part this is one of the key areas of danger. At the bow there is a high pressure area, ditto in the area of the stern wave however towards the middle of the vessel and the rear there are low pressure areas that can suck a vessel in. There have - as i understand it - been instances of Atlantics being held beam onto the the transom of larger lifeboats having been dragged into the area of the stern.

In short i would suggest that anyone looking to practice this skill does so only with someone who really knows what they are doing as there are real dangers without even considering the issue of two high speed craft in close proximity. A good way to practice is to do it without actually bringing the vessels to touch - holding position slightly back a couple of boat lengths off can be a real challenge.

Paul

[wavelength]

Equally RYA TCs have received a specific statement to the effect that it is not to be undertaken on courses except SB.

because of an accident and injury doing just this. We have done it in the past with Coastguard boat teams and did it on my first trainers course, but never on an update, in a howling wind with horizontal snow on Southampton water alongside a moving Arun. The look on the poor assessors face as he was poised to leave the safety of the Arun for our perfectly positioned rib was a picture in itself. On being asked "what do you want to do now boss" (creep!) his answer from where he was curled up in the bow was simply "to survive". Wouldnt do it now-older and wiser!

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Paul Glatzel

Around a moving vessel are high and low pressure areas and in part this is one of the key areas of danger. At the bow there is a high pressure area, ditto in the area of the stern wave however towards the middle of the vessel and the rear there are low pressure areas that can suck a vessel in.

Paul

This is called interaction the Pilot boat drivers use this to come alongside moving vessels to transfer the Pilot first by pacing and then using the low pressure to ferry glide them in alongside. Another reason to keep 100 metres clear of any vessel operating in the precautionary area in the Solent saw a lovely classic day boat (sailing ) get sucked in alongside a container ship and spat out the other side in bits. Thankfully the crew survived . It is not recommended to try this unless you have a good understanding of the forces involved and even then to only practice at slow/ moderate speeds as in the safety boat course.

[Rogue Wave]

When I work in the North Sea we have to regularly transfer from the Fast Rescue Crafts to a 12 metre Ribworker and from both vessels to larger vessels up to 50,000 Tonnes I've done this at least 500 times without a problem and the transfer is always done between two static boats. ( in theory I'd prefer to be pacing, but that aint the way we do it!)

Lines are attached to the bows of the two vessels and the boats are pinned on in reverse. The crew then slither over only under the instruction of the coxwain of the boat they are leaving. ( the rump of the transferee does not lose contact with a boat during this time.)

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....ght=contraflow

Is a link to a thread with some pictures on the third picture you can see the 12 metre tied up alonside a FPSO (about 50,000 tonnes) thr fast resue craft then ferries the divers over to this Rib which is in fact a mobile diving platform

[Andy_Rs600]

Interesting conversation about pacing, and i'd agree it's the best way for RIB to Hardboat in the rough but..

Originally Posted by timboli

Is there any reccomended way of doing this in biggerseas?

RIB to RIB.

In my experience you can't go alongside at even slow speeds when it's very rough with 2 RIBs unless they have very similar hulls and tube heights, otherwise you're putting your tubes at risk. We have two boats at work, (SR4.7 and tornado 4.6) and you can put the tornado tube under the SR tube at anything above about 5 knots, because they ride so differently. Any real wave height and that's not so good!

Surley, if it's calm enough to put the boats hard alongside each other, then any means of doing it is the same, whether you use the engine to hold them together (pacing) or ropes, the load on your tubes will be similar, and depend on how well the two boats match up to each other, the wave hiehgt and how well you can keep them head to wind.

If it's rougher than that then it's interesting!

[ribrunt]

Hi folks,

2 things being confused - RNLI no longer practice pacing on station (normally 12-14kts alongside ALB or similar about 18" apart) due to dangers. This was used to practice station keeping for under way helo t/fs. Slow speed transfers are practiced, recommended to take place at minimum speed for larger vsl to maintain steerage (3-4kts?) and clear comms to have taken place beforehand; considered best option for transferring cas if needed to be underway.

Of course - the best rule is leave the pt on the cas vsl if at all possible & only t/f in load&go situation! I know query relates to non-SAR tho.

In rough wx could you consider lying to sea anchor if t/f between RIBs? I have found tying together inevitably results in wrenching as they move to different parts of the wave. It's never going to be pleasant whichever way...

Not sure about tying a line to the person - at least if they fall in untethered they can float free & one rib can go around and collect, otherwise they risk being minced or squished between hulls. Pt in stretcher is always unstrapped for moment of t/f for that reason.

Cheers

RR.

[Andy_Rs600]

Originally Posted by ribrunt

Pt in stretcher is always unstrapped for moment of t/f for that reason.

!!!!! Does that mean your stretchers don't self right if they go in the drink with pt in?

[ADS]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Good drill if you can do it.
RN used to train at 20knots+, once alongside if wheel set right you can even let go of the helm as pressure wave and suction keeps you alongside. Be prepare for speed increase as your boat gets sucked in alongside. bit harder on rib to rib as boat can ride up onto tube or go under tube.
Paul

I did that on my RYA level 2 although it was completed with the RN

[WINDRIDER]

Long thread and one that has probably run its course but just from practical experience from the good old Ministry Of Defence (...or pretence!!!)
We only pace when either it is a real dire emergency (ie CASEVAC on Eurphrates at night under fire in Mar 03) or on inshiore waters when there is little significant swell (Loughs etc) . I have only paced using boats of similar size (MIBs etc) and with Royal Marine oppo on the other craft who have a pretty good handle on what is required. I support all the previous views in that unless it can be absolutely avoided, either stop and come alongside briefly to transfer or find a sheltered point and transfer there. Having been on an RN Pac 22 when it went over the stand on boat which left the boys with cuts and brusies and HM The Queen looking for another RIB it was not the best experience!!

[ribit]

It makes intresting reading I guess it's always going to be dangerous however it's done. have asked a guy I was best man for, these questions as I know he has done this kind of work on many occasions in some very bad weather, once he said his boat had been over more than once, and he was involved some years ago in the sea raid, would love to know more, but that's not going to happen.

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by ribrunt

"helo"..."t/fs"... "vsl"... "comms".... "cas"..."pt"... "cas"..."vsl".. "t/f"..."SAR"... "tho".

"wx"... "t/f"..."Pt"... "t/f"

You gotta load of keys broken on your keyboard, or did you post this via a text message?

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

did you post this via a text message?

downt bee a twatt yew twatt. dats ow dem nobburs inn de eemirjency sirvisis speek orl de tyme.

translashun.....

wx... itts pissin dowen
cas/pt... sum fkker wots bleedin to deth
vsl...bote
lowd an goe... chukk de bastud wots dyin innto sum uvver nobburs bote an
fuk orf bakk to de stashun beefor de teelaydy gows ome.
sar...lukin forr a cas/pt yewshully 200 myles fromm wher thay arr.
coms...de arrt ov yewsin tenn werds wen wan wil do


wen yew gett yorr noo tawnado inn de worter diggy yew can tork lyke dat

Originally Posted by WINDRIDER

CASEVAC on Eurphrates at night under fire

i aynt cumin onn wan ov yorr ribb rydes mait

gArf