ribcraft and scotseats anyone?

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Any fixing of this type will only be as good as the substrate it's fitted into. If you haven't got proper embedded matrix fixings, I think Sika 291 is the way to go. Even then, it's only as good as the preparation & substrate.

Originally Posted by Xk59D

I am going to use the same method as above glued in, the deck will fail before the fixing let's go.

By glue I presume you mean epoxy? Surely it would have to be reinforced? Despite how good epoxy is

[Xk59D]

I've spoken to a couple of people and nope, just glue in be fine, it is special glue for the fixings

You have 6 big fixings in each seat, plus maybe sikaflex on rails.

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

I've spoken to a couple of people and nope, just glue in be fine, it is special glue for the fixings

You have 6 big fixings in each seat, plus maybe sikaflex on rails.

Love to know what it is

[butty]

Something like SP Spa Bond 345, we use it to glue all sort together in yachts.

Works very well in shear.

[Xk59D]

Scotseat recommends veck ra300 glue.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

Scotseat recommends veck ra300 glue.

i see they have a range of fastners Xk59D you going to glue fastners down then bolt the seat on them?

[gtflash]

Both spa and veck look like a very good product. It would really make me nervous having no mechanical "lock" to the deck though. Are these products really suitable on their own? What if the thing its adheared to gives?

I think I have just talked myself into thru bolting my seat instal with a small access to get to rear

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by gtflash

Both spa and veck look like a very good product. It would really make me nervous having no mechanical "lock" to the deck though. Are these products really suitable on their own? What if the thing its adheared to gives?

I think I have just talked myself into thru bolting my seat instal with a small access to get to rear

both scotseats and ribcraft said it is nigh on impossible to get this stuff off so it is very unlikely the seats will ever move. for extra security sikaflex the bases down if you want, it will never move.

scotseats said they only use this glue on some of their seats for buses and they are tested to 7 tonnes as per the requirement, no mechanical fixings of any kind.

keep in mind both ullman and scotseats recommend these fittings so it isn't in their interests to do something not pukka.

i have not decided 100% to get seats yet but when i do i will 100% be fixing them with these fasteners from veck.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

both scotseats and ribcraft said it is nigh on impossible to get this stuff off so it is very unlikely the seats will ever move. for extra security sikaflex the bases down if you want, it will never move.

scotseats said they only use this glue on some of their seats for buses and they are tested to 7 tonnes as per the requirement, no mechanical fixings of any kind.

keep in mind both ullman and scotseats recommend these fittings so it isn't in their interests to do something not pukka.

i have not decided 100% to get seats yet but when i do i will 100% be fixing them with these fasteners from veck.

When you consider many modern "glues" are used in F1 and even Aircraft manufacture in loads of applications previously the realm of welding and fixings...it shows how much things have moved on.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Maximus

When you consider many modern "glues" are used in F1 and even Aircraft manufacture in loads of applications previously the realm of welding and fixings...it shows how much things have moved on.

Yup[emoji106] we routinely use resins/glues/mastics for structural fixing. The glued joint is generally stronger than the substrate. It's all in the preparation pet! (Showing your age if you remember that ad.)

[Xk59D]

Times have changed for sure folks, I'm still having trouble with no mechanical fixings through the deck but even if I took it back to ribcraft they would still glue them in but then fibreglass over everything to help protect it more than structural. That is the proper way though if wanting to go that far.

The important thing for me is making sure everything is sealed properly so I may reflow coat over to help with that just incase.

[Xk59D]

just to follow this up in case others stumble across this.

scotseats have had a reasonable size design change now and you have quick height adjustment option over the normal slower screw turn, new shock system and the lateral springs have gone, there is also a quick release mounting system. i have never seen any other suspension seat so i couldn't tell you if this is good, bad or indifferent but it is design progression.

i was down at their HQ today for a final measurement check and try to decide on the wide or normal ones, not long now!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

just to follow this up in case others stumble across this.

scotseats have had a reasonable size design change now and you have quick height adjustment option over the normal slower screw turn, new shock system and the lateral springs have gone, there is also a quick release mounting system. i have never seen any other suspension seat so i couldn't tell you if this is good, bad or indifferent but it is design progression.

i was down at their HQ today for a final measurement check and try to decide on the wide or normal ones, not long now!

[emoji106]sounds like they're making progress

[Xk59D]

oh, i should add, they look 99% the same to my untrained eye, just the coils are gone being biggest thing i guess.

i should have took some pics today but was busy with a calculator and a measuring tape

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Any fixing of this type will only be as good as the substrate it's fitted into. If you haven't got proper embedded matrix fixings, I think Sika 291 is the way to go. Even then, it's only as good as the preparation & substrate.

Sika 291 is primarily a sealant. For bonding I'd suggest using Sika 292i but as PD says it will only work if the preparation is good. There is a primer required for various substrates.

Marine Brochures | Sika

Try the above link for a look at the complex world of sealants and adhesives.

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by gtflash

De Ja fun..... ulman seats have 6 fittings I believe.

As per previous thread, there are other threaded fixings that might be stronger. I really like the look of those fixings but if you google the non marine ones they seem to indicate they are for medium duty loads,

Just about to fix some suspension seats to my foam core deck next week, I'll be bonding M8 big head fastners into epoxy. Although I can't calculate the difference, the big head bonded in epoxy will have more surface area "grip" than the thread area of those male things.

what fittings are you going to use?

are you glassing over them or just going with the epoxy only to do the job?

i got a quote to get the seats fitted but i wasn't happy with how they were proposing to do it as was a bit agricultural for my liking.

they think using the ullman fasteners are perfect with them set in with epoxy for a mechanical and glued fitting, they had no experience of only bonded fasteners.

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

what fittings are you going to use?

are you glassing over them or just going with the epoxy only to do the job?

i got a quote to get the seats fitted but i wasn't happy with how they were proposing to do it as was a bit agricultural for my liking.

they think using the ullman fasteners are perfect with them set in with epoxy for a mechanical and glued fitting, they had no experience of only bonded fasteners.

I have ordered these. https://www.bighead.co.uk/the-original-bighead/ M8 blind 38x15mm. If your deck is ply it might be different as mine is foam core. I will cut a hole through top part of sandwich, remove foam around hole and a bit bigger to create a "lock". Then squidge the big head into a mix of epoxy and Cabosil. My deck is a little fatter than the depth of big head so I will fit a bolt into the big head which will stop any epoxy gumming it up. make flush the epoxy at deck etc. Thus chemical and mechanical bond

The lads on boat design forum always oversize drill ply and fill with cabosil, milled fibre mixes. Then re drill correct size for bolts. It seals a wood area from rot. Adds compression strength too. No need to glass IMHO. Thickened epoxy is hard as concrete. Only thing is, eliminating pull through. Some people suggest a right angle Allen key in a drill. As it will oversize the "other" side and allow that lock

[gtflash]

What is ur deck made of?

[Xk59D]

ribcraft deck is approx 1 inch thick, it is made up with 1/2" marine ply and laminated top and bottom to make up to circa 1".

i've narrowed down my choice to using the ullman fittings epoxied in or grind down a layer or 2 of glass round about the bighead fittings and glass them in, i will ask them tomorrow what they would suggest.

i'm really reluctant to drill through the deck if avoidable to use inserts but i know that is popular method for retro fitting to my deck style if need be.

i seen how an MOD atlantic seats are held in couple of days ago, basically bolted into threaded inserts.

[gtflash]

Thought I would update.

I have installed the bigheads, it was a bit of a pain. I hole sawed a suitable size hole into top layer of deck, hollowed out the foam core with an Allen key in a drill, placed bighead in on an angle and then straightened it out and put a bolt in it. I then filled with thickened epoxy.

In reality three places didn't have a second skin, were actually a solid, but thin laminate. On two of those three I could get the bighead in and twist it so it was held in place, but in one place I had to use a cable tie to stop the thing falling down into the depths of the boat and it skewed the angle it epoxied at. I drilled it back out and started again, but the underside of the deck was tappered and it still didn't sit straight. Right old drama.

Anyway it's all done now. And I am glad the bigheads are behinds grp and can't pull through.