Ribeye or???

[Stigomery]

Hi,

I'm new to RIBs and could really do with some sound advice.

From what I've researched I think I'm on for a RIB of about 4m. The ribeye ts400 seems about right in terms of capacity, teamed with a 20 Hp outboard. It will be used for coastal hopping, family days trips (up to four adults plus a few small kids max) fishing etc. Will be beached a lot. Almost certain I want RIB and not SIB or solid GRP boat or plastic boat such as a Terhi.

However, not knowing the marketplace I don't really know what other brands/RIBs are comparable/better.
Also, outboards. Mercury, Yamaha, Tohatsu, Suzuki... Is there a better make? I was going for Yam because the local guy is a dealer so might be better for service/repair but other brands are as much as £400 cheaper for the 20Hp tiller model!

I have about £4-5k to spend and already have VHF, life jackets etc.

Finally, could I roof-rack the 75kg Ribeye and boot a 20Hp engine?

Thanks...

Stig

[Stigomery]

In fact a Parson is about £700 cheaper than the Yam... For 20hp, that's a lot in my eyes...

[Stigomery]

See now I'm staying, for £2850 I could have a Seabrook 430HD and 20Hp Parson new, which would keep the wife happy, costs down and might be good enough???

[Poly]

Stop. You are comparing totally different offerings. Tell us what you want to do, where you want to do it, why you think a rib is the right tool and how much experience you have and you'll get better advice.

[whisper]

I'm selling this one...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/151846627615

[MatFromPoland]

Originally Posted by Poly

Tell us what you want to do, where you want to do it, why you think a rib is the right tool and how much experience you have and you'll get better advice.

Originally Posted by Stigomery

It will be used for coastal hopping, family days trips (up to four adults plus a few small kids max) fishing etc. Will be beached a lot. Almost certain I want RIB and not SIB or solid GRP boat or plastic boat such as a Terhi.

4 adults and few kids. Personally I vote for whisper offer (famous quality - low budget)
Still not sure it even fit 4 adults and few kids

[Stigomery]

OK - slowing down...

It's for a few family days out in the summer, mostly North Norfolk. Shallow waters, sandy beaches, limited windows to get in/out.

Will I ever tow skiers/doughnuts? Not for a few years but maybe one day. Is mostly a leisure craft to get our around the coast quickly and safely.

Will normally be 2 adults, 2 kids, but might be a few more on calm days if we take some friends.

Don't want to spend £££££ because it will only get 4-6 outings a year and is more a run about than a full time hobby.

Thanks for the link Whisper, and don't take offence, but once bitten twice shy in the second hand OB market - a 16 year old outboard is not for me. I'd rather buy everything new TBH and then I know what I have.

20HP is fine for a good few years. Yes, I'd like the flexibility to tow or go out in slightly rougher seas but for the next few years I think calm and slow is likely the way... this is what had me get excited by perhaps considering a SIB and Parsun rather than a Ribeye and Yam...

[Chris]

[QUOTE=Stigomery;697931]
Thanks for the link Whisper, and don't take offence, but once bitten twice shy in the second hand OB market - a 16 year old outboard is not for me. I'd rather buy everything new TBH and then I know what I have.
[QUOTE]

Definitely DONT buy a Parson then.

If you need to get it on a roof rack then I don't think any RIB big enough for 4 people will be suitable.

[Stigomery]

I don't 'need' to get in on a roof rack and I've had trailered (speed) boats before but was wondering how feasible/realistic using the roofrack only was...

Thanks... I know I sound quite confused in this thread - but genuinely confused myself and trying to find the most cost effective solution that is a summer recreation boat rather than all-singing-all-dancing CAT B power boat...

£5.5k seemed too high for the Ribeye + Yam... but if that's the best bet then perhaps I can stretch... £3k seems much more manageable.

I'm pretty set on new though which i know is limiting myself considerably and perhaps foolish.

[MatFromPoland]

I used in 2014 HONWAVE T38 IE2 + HONDA BF20.
There are many people here use such combo.
Just ask in SIB subforum.
It was for Family 2+3 but kids were smaller and there were about 30 - 35 kg each.



To fit them I bought 2 ZODIAC inflatable seats and made some construction for them

[whisper]

First of all forget the other family, they won't be coming out in the type and size of rib/sib your looking for. The only way they'll be joining you is if they also by a similar size package and join you for days out.

Having said that I bet it won't always be you and your family either, it might just be you on your own or you and a mate, so you'll want to go faster and further?

Once you get the right set up there is loads of trips and places you can go.

A good SIB is a Bombard 380, but I wouldn't be buying a Parson outboard.

Some secondhand engines can be a can of worms, however with the yam 2 strokes its all about condition rather than age.

If you are going to tow your boat in or on a trailer then you might as well buy a rib.

You can put extra seating in an SR4 or if you can find an SR4 deluxe then they already have 4 seats.

If your kids are young then you can always take them on lakes, rivers or canals which is a totally different experience to the sea as I'm sure you already know.

The Seariders have a flooding hull which means at rest they are very stable, they also have a deep V hull so you can handle the rough stuff if you needed to.

I hope that helps a bit

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by Stigomery

See now I'm staying, for £2850 I could have a Seabrook 430HD and 20Hp Parson new, which would keep the wife happy, costs down and might be good enough???

trying to put a rib on yer roof will be a pain unless you buy one of the sliding roof racks.

that rib whisper is selling looks bob on for your needs don't know the spec but i would say a 6 man boat with a 40 on it will still perform well loaded.

you could consider an aerotec SIB 5 man with a 25 on new Ron hale prices 4-5k fold up but 20-25 still a lump to move or get a trailer for ease nice light weight set up and has a very good following on here.

highfield do 3 versions of ali hulled boat the classic might suit you.

i recently down sized and went for a mercury HD365xs SIB with a 25 Suzuki new and very happy performs well good on fuel 6 man capacity around 4.5k i trail mine for ease.
IMO the engine needs to perform right through the load range so you can still enjoy the boats full potential.

cheers

[Stigomery]

Originally Posted by whisper

A good SIB is a Bombard 380, but I wouldn't be buying a Parson outboard.

Thanks Whisper - very helpful.

The Bombard 380 seems to be the same price as the Ribeye TS400 which has an aluminium hull so if I was going to commit to spending that much I'd go RIB rather than SIB.

Is a complete package achievable for £3k - £4k with a decent 20HP?

Maybe I just have to scale back a little and go for something like the TS370 and a Yam 15HP which comes in at £4.5k... but for £200 more I get 20HP...

By god this is getting complicated...

[whisper]

Take it steady and keep your money in the bank for a bit. Most of us have changed our boats around quite a bit so it's real hard to get something that's perfect for your needs first time.

[beamishken]

We have a ribeye ts 280 as a tender & love it very light & easy to handle it's actually lighter than our previous airdec tender the same size & handles far better
We also used to car top a 3.8 m glass hulled rib which weighed in at over 100kg we made a custom rack for it & two of us could lift & slide it on to a lwb 4x4 anythings possible with a bit of ingenuity
Sibs are fine if you have to fold them up but if you can trailer or car top the rib will always outclass the sib
I wouldn't go for a parsun whatever the saving.yamaha has always been my make of choice
Best idea is try to get a short list together & go to the London boat show in January & see them all in the flesh

[Stigomery]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Best idea is try to get a short list together & go to the London boat show in January & see them all in the flesh

Ah ha... now this is absolutely what I need to do!

So I guess I'm looking to see what's comparable to a Ribeye TS400... or whether I think a SIB will be fine... TBH I don't warm to a SIB but saving over a grand is very appealing.

[ShinyShoe]

OK - firstly Mat someone appears to have stuck a sofa on a SIB taken a picture, hacked your account and uploaded it. That is an abomination that should result in a public rib.net flogging ;-)

Right - 20HP on most 4m RIB is low. On the Ali hulls its not as bad as some, but still a tad low if you ask me. Tiller steer? Not hugely popular on a RIB. There are some use cases but enlighten us why?

Roof Rack. - So in the 1950's/60's several sailing dinghies were designed for roof racks. Heron Dinghy/Mirror Dinghy are classics. They are marginally lighter than you are talking. They are also not at all squidgy and if there was any wear it would be on the deck not the tube... ...Both of those actually had winching points on the hull so you could reverse your MorrisMinor into the garage, attach a winch / davit type thing and lift it off the car, drive car out and then when you go boating again reverse car in and lower it down. Probably the first clue that putting it on the roof in the first place is a royal PITA. You so occassionally see some on roofs. But I'd suggest anything over 40kg is pushing your luck. (Can you imagine modern HSE thoughts on lifting 75kg above head height!)

Parson - its cheap for a reason. Now I'm the kind of guy who buys a Skoda over a VW. BUT tis is pretty critical kit and even I would be tempted not to.

Now for the RibEye and equivalents:
- the TS is officially RibEye's tender range. Not saying its not capable but your average tender doesn't need to handle serious seas. Its rated to 7 people. Thats fine for the yacht club taxi dropping people off at a nearby mooring. Or if its the tender slung on the back of a 65footer with 12 crew to do 2 runs. You wont find it fine with 7 people on even for a 3 or 4 mile journey. I suspect you'd struggle to even plane it with 7 up and a 30Hp on. But I think thats no different for any 4m rib.

Equivalents to look at:
- Ali Hull: SeaSwift used to sell the X Pro range. Not 100% sure if they still do when they took on the Highfield range. If they don't do the X-pro I'd check if anyone else is (there was a x-pro boats website seperate to theirs in the same area of the country for a while) - I think its a boat that IMHO is better designed as a boat than a tender.
- Ali Highfield also worth a look

Engines:
Two choices - dealer who provides boat can kit it out for you and you go with what they deal in or you buy hull sepearely and get your local engine dealer to rig it (or as its tiller just do it yourself)

First obviously works well as they know the boat and the set up and there is often a deal to be done. Second means you have a local stealer who can fix problems etc. Not much good having a Parson if you don't have someone who can fix it WHEN it breaks...

I think the thing people struggle on here with is when you say things like day trips... people on here do day trips that are 2 miles while others do 20 and a few do 200!

In about 3-4 years time I expect to be thinking about a 4m RIB. I'll be thinking X-Pro 420 or SR4 and Whisper's would certainly get a look. Mine would be used for dinghy sailing coaching plus some short day trips with family (<15 NM, good weather, nothing crazy) plus perhaps one or two endurance trips of up to 50-75NM in possibly more challenging conditions.

[Landlockedpirate]

Ive had a something similar to what you are looking at over the summer, a old Valiant D340 rib and a 20hp 2 stroke Yamaha.

It did have a jockey console with remotes which was great if you were on your own, but terrible if you needed to take anyone with you. So I removed the console and returned the outboard to tiller control. It would then comfortably seat 6 on the tubes. It weighed 75kg and would only just plane with 2 adults and 2 kids, it was very sensitive to weight distribution.

It performed better than any of the sibs I have owned, but planing in anything other than flat calm was seriously dodgy, with a good chance that someone would end up falling overboard - the massive downside of not having proper seating.

With a light weight helm and spotter it would tow a kneeboard or ringo, it would even tow a good light wakeboarder.

Some observations on your questions.

No chance of lifting onto a roof rack, its too big, too heavy and too awkward.

If you are looking at a 4m and with the loading you suggest, I would want 30hp minimum, chugging along a displacement speed will soon lose its appeal.

Parson - Although they are cheap to buy, they are almost impossible to sell second hand and will cost you much more in the long run than a established branded make.

[Stigomery]

Thanks. Bearing mind we have about a 3 hour window with the tides in North Norfolk we won't be venturing far. It's literally a taxi to/from some of the beaches, nothing more. It won't be going out in 2m swell or f6 so a yacht tender is actually perfect. Yes, in 5 years time we might want something more, we might also want a sailing boat, who knows.

I'm fliting backwards and forwards between something ridgid and something like the Honwave. I know I do not want a big RIB. It was a toss up between a Terhi 445 or a tender type RIB. The economics and use are what has pushed me towards the Ribeye or Honwave.

Our local guy (Ely Chandlers) are doing the Honwave T38 plus 20Hp Honda for about £3400 ish which sounds appealing.

[Poly]

Just to add a bit of substance to my earlier brief thoughts (via the app) now that I have a keyboard in front of me.

You said you want to beach it regularly. If you actually want to beach it, rather than anchor off and swim / wade ashore, then I'd say GRP hulls are far from ideal - they seem to magnetically attract any rocks/stones on the beach and get scratched / chipped. Your Aluminium hull is therefore a good call. I'm not sure unprotected fabric (SIB) hulls are ideal for this either, transom wheels will be the echos you hear from the SIB forum - but at over 4m that is quite an unweildy beast to move on a couple of small wheels well behind the balance point. You've dismissed plastic - but actually plastic is one of the best materials for carefree beaching.

Landlockedpirate and others have covered a number of the other points I wanted to make, but all the same:

You are talking about taking 2 young children. Young children aren't really best suited to perching on a tube or sitting on the floor/deck. I'd say this is especially so if you are busy helming and their is only one other adult on board. I'd be looking for an arrangement where the kids can get a reasonably secure seat. Even if that meant it wasn't a RIB.

You were talking about possibly taking 4 adults plus kids (and presumably the associated gubbins. Any 4m boat will be "crowded" with six people on board, especially with fishing rods as you hinted at. Most boats are going to be sluggish with that load and only 20HP. Rigid hulls seems to perform better than SIBs when heavily laden. You've now suggested the future might involve towing toys. I think you'll need to decide to go less than 4m or more than 20HP to keep that a realistic prospect.

You were considering car topping and putting engine in the boot. That's possible with some vehicles but it will take the entire boot, be awkward to do and leave almost no room for the other stuff that spouses and children seem to accumulate and need to take with them. With a "rib" it would also seem you get the worst of both worlds - it that you still have the kit faff of removing everything from the boat to transport it that you get with a SIB.

I think the comments about brands are applicable not only to the engine (and there is no doubt that rightly or wrongly Yamaha's have more appeal than Parsun's and will be far easier to find someone willing to fix it) but also applies to the hull. Whilst Ribeye are not everyone here's cup-of-tea they hold their value reasonably well. They also have a reasonable after sales capability which you should be aware of when comparing prices. A return trip to the other end of the country because a valve is faulty would really put saving a few pounds into perspective.

I'm still not sure why you actually want a RIB though. That might sound silly on a RIB forum! However the tube is a relatively expensive part of a small RIB/SIB (and a vulnerable one) so what benefits are you hoping to get from a RIB over other boats ?

Originally Posted by whisper

First of all forget the other family, they won't be coming out in the type and size of rib/sib your looking for. The only way they'll be joining you is if they also by a similar size package and join you for days out.

This is probably a fair point! The other time they can still come along is when its only a mile or two to the beach / deserted island you all want to have a BBQ on - then you can make a couple of trips to get everyone there.