RIBs for flood/swiftwater rescue?

[treerat]

Originally Posted by havener

Nooooo.....probably the worst thing to put into floodwater - extremely vulnerable to puncture damage, submerged barbed wire fences, floating debris, chemical or bio contamination, all sorts of nasties.

There is a specific type of inflatable useful for wier rescue (low head dams to our US cousins) or for mud rescue, but that's about it.

That depends on the term flood water. If we are talking house to house flooded street they are very good. If we are talking river grade water they are good for staged rescue platforms but as you so rightly say, poor for moving water.

However we have used them very succesfully on large river rescue covers.

Andy

[treerat]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Depending on the mission you wish to accomplish, how about a Jetski with a rescue board on the back?

Very little draft, small, easily launched (Youtube vids of jetskiers launching their trucks notwithstanding), and no spinning prop to ruin peoples days.

jky

Used these as well with a raft on the back rather than a board, but as with all craft each has it's place - really need to know what sort of area, water, hazards the team will be operating in before we look at crafts.



Andy

[havener]

Originally Posted by treerat

That depends on the term flood water. If we are talking house to house flooded street they are very good.
Andy

It's horses for courses really - they would still be my second choice for urban street type rescues - one of the biggest advantages we found using an ali boat in the 2007 floods was because the water height was above ground floor window level, we could power up bow on to the house, holding us perfectly while a ladder was used to bring people out of upstairs windows. This did prove very effective.

Codders - the reason inflatable boats are OK in whitewater is to do with the hydrodynamics - white water contains over 50% air, which is why you can't swim in a weir boil line. Any fixed object in whitewater, even a jagged rock, will have, however seemingly small, a cushion of water/air mix around it which will help deflect the hull.
This does not occur in floodwater, therefore rendering the craft more vulnerable.

Added to that, an inflatable boat is a one-shot device, i.e. if it hits a sharp object, you're in trouble. For the same reason, we never ever use air-filled lifejackets in that situation, always rescue PFDs.

[treerat]

Originally Posted by havener

. For the same reason, we never ever use air-filled lifejackets in that situation, always rescue PFDs.

http://www.polarbearsq.com/product.asp?pid=417

These are the ones I've moved over to using, great price for a good piece of kit.

Andy

[tim griffin]

The RLSS UK are looking to develop its own Open Water Rescue Awards and are in consultation with Rescue 3 and numerous Fire and Rescue Organisations around the country this will eventually lead to a new award designed around floodwater rescue .

Havener has made some good points in respect to type of craft used for Flood Water Rescue and each area or site will have its own unique site specifics so one type of boat will not suit all areas .


The same applies to the training to a large extent as not all areas are going to have the same type of geography effecting the flood water so a very complex thing to set up and organise and of course practice in, so I guess training will have to cover as broader subject base as possible to cover all eventualities.
The RWC is a good choice of craft but limited in certain areas again .
Some great stuff on youtube showing training for Swiftwater Rescue applications and real rescues .
Cheers Tim

[m chappelow]

for urban flood rescue the RNLI use 3 types the D class ,and boarding boats ,both 16 foot s.i.b.s and the arancia beach lifeguard ribs, all are taken to site trailored by a landrover with each team being self sufficiant .when filey flooded a couple of years ago the lifeboat went into the town , the d class was used but kept fastened on the trailer as the depth of water varied so it was pushed and sailed around the town .having said that the rnli lost a d class in flood waters when it was sucked under a low road bridge along with a 40 hp outboard the crew just climbed off in time ,have a look on REDCAR LIFEBOATs web site ,there a few photos of when they went down to hull a few years back ,also there is a fantastic video somewhere on the net of an rnli sib speeding down a flooded main street and the boat just does a right turn into the next road as if driving a car . ps dont forget that there is no such thing as flood management you can not manage flood water , regards mart

[jyasaki]

This page shows the rescue configuration of the PWC I was suggesting:

http://www.honolulu.gov/hfd/otherequipment_pwc.htm

At the bottom of the page.

FWIW, the State Park Lifeguards in Monterey/Carmel CA run pretty much the same thing (I just don't have pics of them, though I have helped launch and recover on occasion.)


jky

[treerat]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

The RLSS UK are looking to develop its own Open Water Rescue Awards and are in consultation with Rescue 3 and numerous Fire and Rescue Organisations around the country this will eventually lead to a new award designed around floodwater rescue .

Havener has made some good points in respect to type of craft used for Flood Water Rescue and each area or site will have its own unique site specifics so one type of boat will not suit all areas .


The same applies to the training to a large extent as not all areas are going to have the same type of geography effecting the flood water so a very complex thing to set up and organise and of course practice in, so I guess training will have to cover as broader subject base as possible to cover all eventualities.
The RWC is a good choice of craft but limited in certain areas again .
Some great stuff on youtube showing training for Swiftwater Rescue applications and real rescues .
Cheers Tim

This is such a large area of concern at the moment various bodies are at it. Within teh BCU Lifeguards we have re vampted our award. Various fire services have put together an SRT version using 5 levels of operator, 4 being boat. And as teh say the RLSS are looking at it as well.

And there is also the K38 team in Cornwall who use PWCs and a rescue sylabus http://k38ukrescue.blogspot.com/2008...er-rescue.html

I can train the BCU version and we are currently ramping up trainers to try and fill the void that is out there. Proplem is the governement gave the resposibilty for water rescue to the fire service in December. There are a number of forums starting up to ensure that teh volunteer groups can work with the fire service as it's accepted that in major incidents the serice can't get enough man power, locally, fast enough but they have concerns on training, skills etc. So it's watch this space.

[tim griffin]

You gotta hand it to Hawaiians for coming up with a good idea.
A Captain Brian Keaulana and Water Safety Officer Terry Ahue were the first guy's to develop this type of rescue technique.
The inspiration were the Australian and New Zealand Surf Lifeguards using IRB but this type of craft was not suitable for the surf in Hawai.

It was not until they saw a guy called Tony Sanchez of Haleiwa useing his PWC in high Surf at Waimea Bay during a surf contest that they saw the potential for rescue work using jet propulsion .
The rest is history as now every Beach Lifeguard Organisation uses Rescue Water Craft as there primary means of rescue craft.
The RLSS UK have there own version of RWC training and it is one of my favourite courses
Tim Anorak Griffin signing off now

[Turbodiesel]

You want something like an Avon ERB380 Pro. Good bit of kit.

http://www.avon-workboats.com/page/erb380p

[iancg1]

Hi. Thank you for all your replies. Aside from maintenance, durability is also a concern. We plan to operate both in river areas (whitewater) and in house-to-house street floods. Our last flood was on Jan 11. River and stream waters rose over 2m which overflowed to river side communities, and low lying areas areas had water up to sometimes over the roof. Barbed wire and other sharp materials are a real concern here. What other alternatives aside from a SIB can we use? Can anyone provide links? Thanks.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by iancg1

Barbed wire and other sharp materials are a real concern here. What other alternatives aside from a SIB can we use? Can anyone provide links? Thanks.

Is this any good?

http://www.fun-yak.co.uk/html/fun_ya...html#FunYak3.9

[iancg1]

Those fun yak boats look nice, anyone have experience with them?

[treerat]

Originally Posted by iancg1

Hi. Thank you for all your replies. Aside from maintenance, durability is also a concern. We plan to operate both in river areas (whitewater) and in house-to-house street floods. Our last flood was on Jan 11. River and stream waters rose over 2m which overflowed to river side communities, and low lying areas areas had water up to sometimes over the roof. Barbed wire and other sharp materials are a real concern here. What other alternatives aside from a SIB can we use? Can anyone provide links? Thanks.

Hi

White water and boats are a totally different skill base to house to house, and to be honestyou may be better off with 2 craft. I'm happy with a sib for house to house but not on whitewater if you want it to survive long. At that point you need to be looking at ali or heavy plastic. And I'd want it jet drive, and an internal one at that a jet leg.

Not sure on the best boat, it's not somewhere I've been. We use a SIB or a raft on white water but that is for tethered rescue not powering around.

I have used a D class on a weir, it was ok for rescue below the wier as we had a large flat area to operate on, wouldn't want to navigate it down a river though. You'ed really have to know your work area to put powerd craft onto a white water river. Personally that's what Rescue Kayaks are for;
http://www.bculifeguards.org.uk/

Where in the country are you based?


Andy

[Poly]

Originally Posted by iancg1

Those fun yak boats look nice, anyone have experience with them?

I own the same model that Nos4r2 posted, set up with centre console. Fairly indestructible. As with all Rib owners I am slightly biased so believe I made an excellent buying decision; that said I am waiting for funds and free time to justify an upgrade to a bigger boat which will probably have real tubes.

Some of the pros for you- Zero maintainence hull/sponsons, almost impossible to damage (one of their competitors shows a video of a similar sized boat being dropped from a crane onto a concrete car park - see www.marinerevolution.com). More in built storage than a typical rib (beware this is not watertight); The "tubes" are shaped all the way round so you can sit people in the boat rather than on the tubes.

V-hull handles like a rib rather any "skiddy" dory

The Mac boats (sold in the UK through Marine Revolution) are foam filled inside the polyethylene skin, the FunYaks are hollow. That might be relevant for you if you are doing stuff thats likely to damage them (bear in mind though that dories are also foam cored - and notorious for being water logged).

I'm not sure if there is space for a stretcher to sit safely in the boat with the console fitted (give me the dimensions and I can check). If the idea is maximum payload then might be best in tiller steer version anyway.

I have no experience of working in the sort of water you are planning so can't comment on suitability.

The British Red Cross operate a flood rescue boat from Inverness (or close to there) which is a polyethylene rotomolded boat too (its a Pioneer, which is a bit more industrial (and expensive!) than a Funyak). They added a hovercraft to their fleet recently - might be worth talking to them to see experiences with the boat and why they decided that going over rather than through the water was what they needed (my understanding is they still have the boat for "jobs" where it is more appropriate.

Where are you based?

[iancg1]

I am based in the Philippines. Those funyaks seem to be the best option since they are nearly indestructible. Are there any other options?

[Poly]

Ah! I was going to offer you the chance to take mine for a spin - but the philipines is a bit far for that

Fun Yaks are made somewhere in France.
Mac Boats (www.macboats.com) are made in NZ and the same concept.
These guys make polyethylene boats in Australia (http://www.polycraft.com.au)
Tehri - Finish manufacturer http://www.terhi.fi/en/main
Steadyboat - Sweedish manufacturer of rib like boats http://www.steadyboats.com/index.cfm?SprakID=2
The Zegul http://www.zegul.se/zegul.php?sida=Zegul380 which disassembles for easy transport (fits on roofrack)
Pioner in Norway - http://www.pionerboat.no/ in particular the Pioner multi.


there are probably others - not sure if there is anyone closer to you.

[havener]

Originally Posted by iancg1

I am based in the Philippines. Those funyaks seem to be the best option since they are nearly indestructible. Are there any other options?

This would be my first choice - http://www.rescueone.com/ Very good bits of kit.

Otherwise, Jeanneau do a superb boat - pics in someone's earlier link to SARAs site.

Pioneer manufacture a good range too, even having a bow ramp for access.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by iancg1

What other alternatives aside from a SIB can we use? Can anyone provide links? Thanks.

Didn't I just do that?


jky

[TonyC]

http://www.rigiflexboats.co.uk/

http://www.waltonmarine.co.uk/boat/R...wmatic360.aspx

I know that these are very popular for providing safety cover (we have 4) but also be some Fire & Rescue units. They're very tough boats if your looking for something solid