Ribs rammed during protest

[Poly]

And just a polite reminder that religion and politics are off limits on ribnet.

[A1an]

Rib for sale, one careful owner.

[captnjack]

So "intending to board" another vessel is a crime? I would have thought the actual boarding was the crime. Collision/ramming is the only crime I'm seeing committed here so far. Perhaps its justified but at least with land based trespass we don't typically use uncontrolled forces (car ramming?) to prevent that in the West.

[tonymac]

Originally Posted by captnjack

So "intending to board" another vessel is a crime? I would have thought the actual boarding was the crime. Collision/ramming is the only crime I'm seeing committed here so far. Perhaps its justified but at least with land based trespass we don't typically use uncontrolled forces (car ramming?) to prevent that in the West.

Have to agree with you Captn.

If I tell people I'm going to climb a tall building to hang a protest banner from it, do it peaceably and not hurt anyone; then as I am driving towards it I, usually, would not expect to get rammed by a police car.
Certainly if I was mad enough to attempt to do this then the police are right to prevent me so that I do not cause damage - intentional or not. But there are limits to their powers to prevent me. Ramming my car and possibly causing further danger to life and limb is an excessive amount of force and not appropriate to the circumstance. Surely that applies here as well?
Just because it is the sea and they can do it with the power of their boats does not mean that they should - or should be allowed to do so.

On the lighter side it does bring to mind one little sib with two Guards (Irish police) on board that rammed into Donegaldans Deep Six under the O'Connell Bridge in Dublin one fine afternoon. Seems they were sent out to find out why a flotilla of English / Welsh and Irish boats was on its way up the Liffey. Thought it was some sort of protest they did. With a few chosen words Donegaldan soon put them to right

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by tonymac

Thought it was some sort of protest they did.......

I remember that, they thought that we were there to support some "Wimmins rights" protesters, as if.......

[mick]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I remember that, they thought that we were there to support some "Wimmins rights" protesters, as if.......

Aye a quick reminder

[Boatnomad]

Spanny's have a reputation for this sort of thing...

[willk]

Originally Posted by Boatnomad

Spanny's have a reputation for this sort of thing...

See - that's what I know. I make a point of sussing out the plod in the various places I end up. "Local customs" vary greatly and I think one should respect that. In Ireland it is considered acceptable to push police personnel around and verbally abuse them, whereas I wouldn't imagine that behaviour getting you anything other than shot in the USA. Not sure I'd try it in France either. In fact, there aren't many police forces in the world that would take the cr@p dished out to rozzers in the UK and Ireland. When in Rome Spain and all that....

[A1an]

Unfortunately we only see one side of the story in that video.

[Bigtalljv]

interesting legal differences in other countries. Over here in the USA it's generally frowned upon to beat, assault, or kill passive protesters/people. The cops still do it all the time then have to be subjected to a full and thorough review before they cleared of all wrong doing.

[andyxs]

Did any one else notice the lazy reporting by the papers, Places like the independent copy and pasting the green peace press release, The Spanish navy boats rammed the green peace dinghy's!! worded to make it sound like they wern't both ribs of equal size

[tonto]

Hmm, not good from both sides.
I can't condone the green pieces attempt to interfere with the lawful activity of 2 vessels.

I work on ships, and believe me after the Attack on the Limburg if small boats are coming at you with a purpose, and you are on an oil or gas tanker, you rather hope the police would take action as they did in this video.

In the US I have had CG escorts going into oil and gas terminals, and they have a constant 500 foot exclusion zone around a tanker, anyone gets near they warn them off with a VHF call, followed by a nudge out of the way, if they still don't listen, well the CG have machine guns. It has happened in the Middle East a few years ago, admittedly it was a US navy vessel, and was about 4 years after the Cole got hit.
Just because the protesters were not carrying guns, does not mean they were not a threat. The ribs could have been carrying explosives, but with the proximity of the green pieces little boats, it was not likely.

Tensions run high in these situations. If there was an exclusion zone the protestors should have been no where near the larger vessels. In any case they were both RAIM, which required the green pieces to keep clear of them under COLREGS.

I do think in this case if the intentions of the protesters were known, or hinted at, a less dramatic intervention may have been possible. If they protesters continued after getting warned by repeated sideswipes, then they have themselves to blame. Unfortunately the video would never show if they were warned, or if there was a gradual escalation of warnings which culminated in the final confrontation.

Also understand that on the large vessels side they are often the targets of nutters and idiotic, dangerous protests. I remember going under a very famous bridge in the US on a tanker whilst someone dropped a large pot of paint onto us. Had it hit someone, there would have been a fatality.

[Rogue Wave]

[C-NUMB]

This was a loose loose incident, no winners. Greanpeace, both organisation and the individuals inside have to take responsibilities for their activities. Despite it looks like a very organized organisation generally knowing what they are doing, there is always a degree of risk of injury or even fatality in such operation. This time the risk come true as injuries, unfortunately.

On the other hand, with limited material available, looks like the rambo's on the "force" foked up big time....According the video there was radio contact in advance before the raid and also a Rainbow mother vessel, so it was pretty obvious who was doing the raid and time enough for proper risk assessment. That said, the action taken by the force looks unprofessional and rookie like. Considering it was Greenpeace , the "protection" could have be done less aggressive but still doing their job. Knowing everything today will be on video and also social media activity, the aggressive looking behavior by the force looks like a perfect PR disaster, not sure they will get any Christmas presents from the oil company either. legality issues will for sure be defined in court at later stage, difficult to say witch side will have a harder time.

[captnjack]

Police always win in court on stuff like this, the prosecutors are on"their side" afterall.

Greenpeace wins in court of public opinion (maybe not convincing everyone but they are being bullied and they are the one's bleeding on camera to show it so for them its a win)

I agree about exclusion zones but this looks to be outside the 3 mile limit, and I'm not sure any state/country can or should be using their military to enforce their rules outside the 3 mile limit.

[willk]

Originally Posted by captnjack

I agree about exclusion zones but this looks to be outside the 3 mile limit, and I'm not sure any state/country can or should be using their military to enforce their rules outside the 3 mile limit.

Yeah. Try rubbing up against these guys 4 miles off....

[Dankoozy]

The police in any given country tend to be heavy-handed sh1theads, looking out for the big boys with the money. That is to be expected.

Just a few days ago here some woman in Ireland got thrown against a bollard by the police for walking infront of some poltician's car.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by willk

Yeah. Try rubbing up against these guys 4 miles off....

No thanks. We were overtaken by a USN Frigate coming into San Diego from a White Shark cage diving trip. (Apparently the exclusion zone only works one way, as they passed about 200 yds off our starboard side.) Lots of pleasure boats out and about, including a lot of blowboaters tacking their way along. The frigate had .50 caliber M2s on each corner, all manned by a gunner and a spotter. Anyone within about a quarter mile had a gun trained on them. I have no doubts they were locked and loaded.

jky

[Jimbob]

Quite horrible really dont you think,

I suppose you could play this out in many ways

Greenpeace had radioed their intentions.

Exclusions zones, but how would you know you were within 500 meters. Could be open, e.g. actually we think you were 450 meters.

Large boats get very worried in these situations and rightly so.

Police did seem a little excessive.

all bad for boating, for most of its supposed to be fun

[Barrowboy]

All pretty tame really. Thirty years ago the French government blew up the Rainbow Warrior alongside in Auckland because she was inconveniencing their nuclear testing in the Pacific...

There will always be activists ready to 'campaign' using direct action and it always amuses me the 'outrage' that spews forth when their direct action is countered (using direct action) by the forces of law and order.

If you want to debate something, there are times, places and processes. Once you've lost the debate and decide to take 'direct action' then you shouldn't be surprised when the going gets tough.