rough weather advice - Page 6

Pablo · 26 August 2009, 08:54

3. A driver problem

chewy · 26 August 2009, 08:57

I agree with the French man.

Pablo · 26 August 2009, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupert

1. what was the correct maneuvre to return to the other ribs?

For me, the correct manoeuvre was to slow down and turn when at the top of a wave in order to get a good vision of the surrounding sea. By the sounds of it, and I could of course be mistaken, the pilot wanted to turn whilst still going fast, too fast.

SPR · 26 August 2009, 10:43

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/...2009/rib_6.cfm

From the MAIB Report:

Safety issues identified during the investigation which
have not resulted in recommendations but have been
adressed

1. The AI was inexperienced, and should have been more thoroughly briefed and closely supervised. [2.4]

2. Mobile telephones are not appropriate for emergency communications at sea. [2.8]

3. The AI adopted an inappropriate position when driving RIB 6; this is indicative of inexperience and that further training is required. [2.11.3]

So as Pablo says: Driver problem caused it the problem, caused by inexperience and driving position, she was driving at the side of the controls NOT behind them, and nobody corrected her style of driving.

But the report brought up many issues, including the use of mobile phones , the short falling of handheld VHF's etc.

The main point is if you have an accident at sea, use the VHF to ask for help, MOB is pan pan at the very least, if not Mayday.

S.

cuttlefish · 26 August 2009, 10:44

was a university student who was working at Plas Menai during her
holidays as a freelance instructor. This was her third season at Plas Menai.
She lived in the area, had spent many years sailing on the Menai Strait, and her local knowledge was very good.
The AI was RYA qualified as a dinghy instructor and a dinghy racing coach, and she had obtained an RYA National Powerboat Certificate Level 2 at Plas Menai in September 2005.

She was also said that she was considered to be relatively inexperienced, but she must have learned something from her courses, and also from her time spent in the area.

chewy · 26 August 2009, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupert

was a university student who was working at Plas Menai during her
holidays as a freelance instructor. This was her third season at Plas Menai.
She lived in the area, had spent many years sailing on the Menai Strait, and her local knowledge was very good.
The AI was RYA qualified as a dinghy instructor and a dinghy racing coach, and she had obtained an RYA National Powerboat Certificate Level 2 at Plas Menai in September 2005.

She was also said that she was considered to be relatively inexperienced, but she must have learned something from her courses, and also from her time spent in the area.

She might have passed the course but putting it into practice is a different matter.

cuttlefish · 26 August 2009, 10:56

she shouldn't have passed the course. Is there no practical part in the course? Who was the tutor who passed her, and on what grounds? Was she cute?

JSP · 26 August 2009, 10:57

Like I said earlier in this thread, I had been used to displacement hulls and when I got my first RIB I was cocky about my experience to just get init and go. The little bugger soon knocked that thought right out of my head.
Jockeying a plaining hull in the rough is a whole different ball game to a displacement, which I soon found out. To be honest in the really rough stuff I'd prefer to be in a tub with a nice round stern with a nice deep draft.

Maybe the young lady discussed above was very experienced with the local water (the menai was once described as the most treacherous by some bloke called Nelson) but not experienced with the type of craft.

chewy · 26 August 2009, 10:59

Don't think the course cover rough water handling. Its been discussed before, if a course was to include rough weather handling you'd struggle to run the course around our weather.

cuttlefish · 26 August 2009, 11:02

That wouldn't by chance be the same Nelson that built a "tub" with a nice round stern with a nice deep draft, about 34' long?

cuttlefish · 26 August 2009, 11:03

Sounds as if there is a real need for such a course.

cuttlefish · 26 August 2009, 11:08

that has not been discussed in this long ongong discuss, is what happens when cabin or canopy ribs capsize. I have found no info on such occurrences. Anyone got any info? I would imagine a worst case scenario, with the people trapped inside.

JSP · 26 August 2009, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Don't think the course cover rough water handling. Its been discussed before, if a course was to include rough weather handling you'd struggle to run the course around our weather.

True mate.
The swellies in a RIB isn't to bad on a fine day, to negotiate the swellies with a keel on a fine day is a whole different ball game. Doesn't take much to get the water rough around there either as it's like a funnel.

JSP · 26 August 2009, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupert

that has not been discussed in this long ongong discuss, is what happens when cabin or canopy ribs capsize. I have found no info on such occurrences. Anyone got any info? I would imagine a worst case scenario, with the people trapped inside.

Should imagine it'll be the same script as when a hard boat capsizes with wheel house. There's a few reports of that happening on the net if you do a search. Although I could imagine a canopy keeping hold of you like a net under the water.
Must be a horrible experience.

chewy · 26 August 2009, 11:35

On a RIB you'll more than likely get thrown out.

alystra · 26 August 2009, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

For me, the correct manoeuvre was to slow down and turn when at the top of a wave in order to get a good vision of the surrounding sea. By the sounds of it, and I could of course be mistaken, the pilot wanted to turn whilst still going fast, too fast.

Well, Pablo's given an answer. Anyone else?

The question: 1. what was the correct maneuvre to return to the other ribs?

Is he right?

All the analysis from MAIB and others says lack of experience was a factor. So, what would experienced people have done?

Just at the moment this thread feels like being told to visit the doctor immediately you notice any symptoms - without being told what the symptoms are.

Pablo · 26 August 2009, 11:45

Not having been in the boat it is impossible to say !

chewy · 26 August 2009, 12:02

It could be a case of not turning quick enough, you don't want to present your beam to the sea.
I'm not keen on turning on the top of waves as if you fall off the top the hull cn dig in and through you out.

JSP · 26 August 2009, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

On a RIB you'll more than likely get thrown out.

Not with a cabin your not.

codprawn · 26 August 2009, 13:05

I remember reading that MAIB report. She was actually standing to the side of the helm so no wonder she was thrown out.

Apart from that - in fairness - no matter how experienced you are anyone can make a mistake - a sudden lapse of concentration is all it takes.

As JSP says - a goold old heavy displacement hull with a deep draft and a canoe stern like Colin Archer used to design will look after you no matter what. With a planing hull - especially a light RIB - driver skill becomes far more important.

My hero of the RIB world is the late Shaun White. He ran his Ocean Dynamics RIBs for years off West Wales. He was probably the inventor of RIB thrill rides and his were the most extreme. They used to go out in silly conditions through the bitches but the boats were well up to the job. Big heavy RIBs with ali hulls - water jets and no transom.

All the passengers would sit on the tubes so if the worse came to the worse they would be thrown clear and not be crushed by the boat if it flipped. He also insisted on his passengers wearing canoing helmets which is a brilliant idea.

All this paid dividends when they eventually had a boat flip.

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/atlantic-eagle.pdf

Please read the report - makes for great reading and you may learn something!!! There are a few criticisms but then thats what reports do - the fact that all the passengers survived with light injuries speaks for itself.