rough weather advice

[cuttlefish]

Good, informative article.
Do you also put semi-displacement hulls into your category of good seagoing vessels for rough water, or do you make a distinction?

rupert.

[codprawn]

Semi displacement covers a multitude of sins. Many boats described as such are really only planing hulls with less horsepower - for example Grand Banks. it is a big grey area really.

Most of the best semi displacement hulls are British - Hardy - Nelson - Mitchell - most lifeboats and of course Guernsey's own Aquastar - one of my dream boats!!!

The biggest downside with them is huge fuel consumption at speed - you can drop down to displacement speeds and they are a lot better but at 20kts they drink a lot - far more than a true planing craft would.

When I mentioned Colin Archer earlier here is one of my favourite boats - the Fisher range - will look after you in anything. With a rounded stern who cares if a wave catches you? That piccy shows one carry full sail in a Force 8.

I love heavy displacemnt craft - trawler yachts etc but for a bit more luxury here is a lovely boat 96' long - with as 12,000 mile range - up for £500,000 - 1/2 the price of an Aquastar 64!!!

[JSP]

Ohhh Aquastar ...hmmmm...nice!

[codprawn]

The finest Nelson builder around are Dale from Pembrokeshire.

http://www.dalenelson.co.uk/nelson-38/default.asp

If you want top notch quality this is the boat to buy - but £750,000 for a 38 footer???

Their order books are full........

[cuttlefish]

Lovely boats:
Aquastar or old Nelsons or Weymouths. The motorsailer looks like a Fisher 37, similar to a Banjer 37, which I also like.

Funny you say that about planing hulls. I know someone who has a Botnia Targa 25 (pretty much sold as all weather boats), but he doesn't go out much in the rough. Once I asked him to pick up something for me, and he took three hours on what is usually a one hour trip - a bit of swell he said. Of course, it is better to err on the side of prudence than to court disaster, but it makes you think: if these boats are all weather....

[codprawn]

I like the Botnias but I don't think the smaller ones work as well. The 31 is pretty good and the 44 is awesome but again if the conditions were truly bad I would rather something like a Nelson.

Another planing boat that is awesome in the rough that I have been on a few times is a Cygnus pilot 33.

http://www.cygnusmarine.co.uk/boats/...cs.asp?lMdl=27

[JSP]

There's a local guy runs a pilot 33. Bloody nice boat. Never been on it but it looks top notch!

[cuttlefish]

I looked at a couple of Nelsons and similar boats before deciding on a rib. Great seakeeping, but I found the Perkins 6354's a bit noisy, and smelly (diesel fumes, especially when cold).

rupert

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

That piccy shows one carry full sail in a Force 8.

which one?

[codprawn]

The middle one - i remember reading the review many moons ago and being so impressed - they said they were sailing in a froce 8 under full sail with out any reefs.

[jambo]

all very interesting guys but what about getting back to Alystra's basic question, what would you do? I must side with Chewy and agree with his reasoning. But as Codders said it is a question of timing and of course experience of the skipper in all aspects not only handling but monitoring his crew.
J

[alystra]

Originally Posted by codprawn

The middle one - i remember reading the review many moons ago and being so impressed - they said they were sailing in a froce 8 under full sail with out any reefs.

Maybe the forecast said F8 and they believed it and wrote it down. Polwarts picture shows a real F8, deep sea I'll admit, so big waves. However the spindrift and foam streaks appear in sheltered water too when the waves may be only two or three feet (like right outside my house in an easterly). If the sea surface doesn't look like that in the picture, it's not blowing a gale.

The Fishers are lovely boats and I'd buy a 37 or 46 if I could, but I can't believe they can hang on to all that sail in a full gale. If they do, that'll be the end of any decent performance from those sails. If not shredded, they'll be be permanently blown out of shape. Of course in this instance, it wasn't their boat.

Getting back to RIBs in rough weather. I've had the odd seat gripping moment in the local short steep seas. I've survived without incident, but whether what I did to escape the situation was the best solution, or I whether was just lucky I'm not sure. Turning round (in short steep seas) my instinct would be to slow down, perhaps to displacement speed (provided there wasn't a breaking wave directly behind), wait for a wave to pass under and then spin round quickly and get the bow pointing to the next crest. In the next trough perhaps speed up and take the waves at an angle on the bow. Am I right? What would you do?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by alystra

Maybe the forecast said F8 and they believed it and wrote it down. Polwarts picture shows a real F8, deep sea I'll admit, so big waves. However the spindrift and foam streaks appear in sheltered water too when the waves may be only two or three feet (like right outside my house in an easterly). If the sea surface doesn't look like that in the picture, it's not blowing a gale.

The Fishers are lovely boats and I'd buy a 37 or 46 if I could, but I can't believe they can hang on to all that sail in a full gale. If they do, that'll be the end of any decent performance from those sails. If not shredded, they'll be be permanently blown out of shape. Of course in this instance, it wasn't their boat.

Getting back to RIBs in rough weather. I've had the odd seat gripping moment in the local short steep seas. I've survived without incident, but whether what I did to escape the situation was the best solution, or I whether was just lucky I'm not sure. Turning round (in short steep seas) my instinct would be to slow down, perhaps to displacement speed (provided there wasn't a breaking wave directly behind), wait for a wave to pass under and then spin round quickly and get the bow pointing to the next crest. In the next trough perhaps speed up and take the waves at an angle on the bow. Am I right?

Sounds just about right to me - the bigger the RIB the better in most cases but the extra manoeuvrability of a small RIB can make up for a lot.

Fishers can easily hang in there - remember motorsailers are under canvassed - they are crap in light winds so they just use the engine.

I should imagine it was a geniune F8 - remember just rounding a headland can make all the difference.

Wind stregth doesn't always = wave height. Some of the worst seas I have seen have been with a Force 2 - after a big blow and a strange tide condition.

In the Burry Inlet in the late 1800s a fleet of fishing boats was destroyed and many lives lost. There was no wind to so they couldn't sail out of trouble but suddenly the sea just started to surge - 30' one second - bare sand the next - the ships were smashed to bits!!!

Amazing - just found a bit about it - 16 ships lost - many with all hands!!!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...0TcV5UKkuR5jTg

[cuttlefish]

but I heard that you need to use the engine with a mizzen or the roll gets uncomfortable.

[alystra]

Sounds just about right to me - the bigger the RIB the better in most cases but the extra manoeuvrability of a small RIB can make up for a lot.

Oh good. You're right though. Size does matter.

Fishers can easily hang in there - remember motorsailers are under canvassed - they are crap in light winds so they just use the engine.

Ok. Generally they are undercanvassed, but some of the Fishers (and Banjers) had a taller rig to make them better in lighter winds. I'd reef the thing anyway.

I should imagine it was a geniune F8 - remember just rounding a headland can make all the difference.

That's true.

Wind stregth doesn't always = wave height. Some of the worst seas I have seen have been with a Force 2 - after a big blow and a strange tide condition.

Yep. That happens round here too. Pyramids squirt up out of the sea around the Dorus Mor.

In the Burry Inlet in the late 1800s a fleet of fishing boats was destroyed and many lives lost. There was no wind to so they couldn't sail out of trouble but suddenly the sea just started to surge - 30' one second - bare sand the next - the ships were smashed to bits!!!

Amazing - just found a bit about it - 16 ships lost - many with all hands!!!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...0TcV5UKkuR5jTg

Blinkin' 'eck. Wales seems to be a very strange place. I'm surprised there's any bare sand though, what with all that water falling from the sky.


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[codprawn]

They don't come much stranger than Burry Port - Lougher - Penclawdd etc - cut off by the salt marshes for many years - all inbred!!!

[Jon.esp]

Originally Posted by alystra

Getting back to RIBs in rough weather. I've had the odd seat gripping moment in the local short steep seas. I've survived without incident, but whether what I did to escape the situation was the best solution, or I whether was just lucky I'm not sure. Turning round (in short steep seas) my instinct would be to slow down, perhaps to displacement speed (provided there wasn't a breaking wave directly behind), wait for a wave to pass under and then spin round quickly and get the bow pointing to the next crest. In the next trough perhaps speed up and take the waves at an angle on the bow. Am I right? What would you do?

This seems to be pretty well what Pablo is saying and I would probably do exactly the same. Having a good 360 look around whilst on the crest to pick the trough I was going to do the turn.

Originally Posted by alystra

The question: 1. what was the correct maneuvre to return to the other ribs?

I am not however so bold to say this is the correct manoeuvre, it is just what I would instinctively do.

Jon

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by alystra

Amazing - just found a bit about it - 16 ships lost - many with all hands!!!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...0TcV5UKkuR5jTg [/I]

Link doesn't work Any idea what to google?

[codprawn]

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c...en&gl=uk&pli=1

Don't know what went wrong there.

It happened in Broughton bay just around the corner from Rhosilli.

Quite a few shipwrecks in the area. A Spanish galleon was wrecked - Doubloons and silver dollars still turn up from time to time. Some cannons are still in a cottage garden near Rhosilli. Also another Spanish treasure ship was wrecked - the rocks are still know as Spaniard rocks to this day. An amazing area.

Two of my favourite photos of Rhosilli - the spay is reaching the top of Worms head - about 200' high.

The 2nd photo shows Rhosilli bay with Burry Holmes in the distance - Broughton bay is just around the corner.

[chewy]

That pub down there does nice hot chocolate too!