Round ireland 2013

[nugent]

So glad you are here to tell the tale,

Frequently gone out alone my self , never with out VHF on my vest and a hand held GPS so as I can shout a position if need be

[Aries]

Great to hear you are ok and some useful info on what happens we can learn from.

Appreciate you sharing it.

[Poly]

MustRIB - well done for telling your story. Jockey seats take huge forces and you are not the first person to rip one out. No doubt your preparedness saved you. Interesting that the yacht was so close - I've never been convinced by personal flares - but perhaps. Whilst in the water you worried about nobody searching for you - in reality the PLB did exactly what you needed - and the response that Paul Glazel describes with major ferries, helos, lifeboats and warships searching for you is quite impressive for a ribnobber!

I'm surprised the Helo crew didn't think you must have banged your head when you said you wanted to keep going!

[nugent]

Originally Posted by Poly

MustRIB - well done for telling your story. Jockey seats take huge forces and you are not the first person to rip one out. !

Glassed in console and jockey, at least the front set, my rears are removable as is my box for fishing or general storage
Got to be best option for a boat designed to go out in any weather,
At least your safe and that's the only out come I enjoy reading , chin up plenty to talk about in your local, and in others mind next time they go out in a god sea, we all get a bit cocky at times to much gas

[Nos4r2]

I'd be interested to see pics of the failed seat/deck attachment if possible?

[ShinyShoe]

You might need to be quick asking for those photos, according to his blog he's working on repairs and hoping to join the trip at some stage!

[ShinyShoe]

Seawolf's AIS:
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions

[kerny]

Glad your okay MustRib, looks like your PLB was your saving grace, you don't think of things like impact damage when wearing your handheld vhf on your L.J.

Great story for when your in the pub with your mates

Stay safe,

k.

[Leapy]

MustRib ... sooo much to learn from this. Going to read over your post again and absorb. Thanks for sharing. Glad you're safe

[miccheck1516]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

I was under the possibly mistaken impression that 406MHz between the 70's of latitude had geostationary cover so you'd expect almost instant transmission. 60 second delay inbuilt in set to avoid false alarms. Then time for a satellite possition lock then transmit was my understanding.
I thought the LEO sats were not geostationary and were able to position the transmitter to within a couple of miles or so but had a delay as they needed to move to do the positioning.


That sounds to me like it took 30mins to get a sat fix. Thats very slow.

I think youre getting satellites and GPS mixed up a bit, First is the initial distress alert, which would have gone out almost instantly, but when falmouth fax or GD92 the info over to milford haven, part of it wil have read 'unresolved' which is relating to position.

Geostationary sats don't move relative to the earth, so there is no doppler effect, and therefore no means of telling how far away you are from the sat. (your position)

The PLB has a GPS built in, which can presumably populate a 'position' field when sending the 406 distress alert, it's possibe that it took he PLB a while to attain a GPS fix (alarm type noise), I know some can be awkward if they don't have a clear view of the sky, if it was in a lifejacket, or pocket, or maybe they are just slow?( I know older GPS units take a long time to get a 'fix' when turned on after a long time off, presumably because they need to find the satallites again)

OR the alarm type noise described was a LEO sat passing over and allowing a position to be deterimed using doppler.

either way, in the grand scheme of things, and considering what these were originally designed for (off shore alert where help might be hundreds of miles away) I don't consider 30 minutes a ridiculous amount of time.

[Downhilldai]

I think I saw gArf's Shetlund in Neyland marina, with ribflikka masheen in the cockpit.....

[T 15]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

I think I saw gArf's Shetlund in Neyland marina, with ribflikka masheen in the cockpit.....

Correct, returned due to sick crew.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by miccheck1516

I think youre getting satellites and GPS mixed up a bit,

No - only in name. a PLB uses the EPIRB GEOSAR and LEOSAR satellites. GEOSAR are geostationary the same as GPS satelites. So within -70 to +70 degrees notification of a distress should be "virtually instantaneous". However if there is no possition information it will only give the beacon ID which should have been identified as a UK beacon but wouldn't have been specific enough to tell Falmouth which MRCC it should pass it to. From what I've read Falmouth would then start by trying a landline / mobile call to te registered address to see if it could be a false alarm. If that was answered they would presumably have been pointed to Milford Haven as a working area. if it wasn't asnwered they'd still be none the wiser to where in the UK the vessel might be, so they'd have to wait for an updated alert with a GPS possition or a LEOSAR to pass over and allow a location.


First is the initial distress alert, which would have gone out almost instantly, but when falmouth fax or GD92 the info over to milford haven, part of it wil have read 'unresolved' which is relating to position.

The PLB has a GPS built in, which can presumably populate a 'position' field when sending the 406 distress alert, it's possibe that it took he PLB a while to attain a GPS fix (alarm type noise), I know some can be awkward if they don't have a clear view of the sky, if it was in a lifejacket, or pocket, or maybe they are just slow?( I know older GPS units take a long time to get a 'fix' when turned on after a long time off, presumably because they need to find the satallites again)

McMurdo did a series of tests in 1984 and unless you are in a revine they'd expect a fix from their PLBs in ~ 5minutes.

Thats common to all GPS's - as far as I know its more related to change in location than time between fixes but it could be both. Switch it off in the marina tonight and back on in the same place in the morning a fix is far quicker than if you tow the boat home and switch it on 50miles away.

Most (?all) PLBs have an inbuilt 60 second delay to reduce false alarms which also gives them some time to try for a fix!

OR the alarm type noise described was a LEO sat passing over and allowing a position to be deterimed using doppler.

Does any PLB have receive capability at all? I don't think it would know the LEO was overhead as I think they only transmit out.

Looks like the MT410G (which is what I think MustRib has) flashes for 6 seconds very quickly and bleeps quickly to indicate its got a satellite fix. Then reverts to beep and pulse every 3 seconds which is just its 'activated' mode. That sounds like what he described. They claim a typical fix in 34seconds from cold, so I guess something about how it was sat obscured the GPS antena? I think the MT410G has its GPS antena on the top of the set. So if you stand it upright it should get best fix. Lying it on top of your lifejacket sounds the sensible thing to do but may have obscured the GPS antena. The MT410G is actually deisgned to float upright...

either way, in the grand scheme of things, and considering what these were originally designed for (off shore alert where help might be hundreds of miles away) I don't consider 30 minutes a ridiculous amount of time.

Its not rediculous. But could still be life or death. Good chance an earlier alert would have meant to yacht knew he was looking for something...

[tonto]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

No - only in name. a PLB uses the EPIRB GEOSAR and LEOSAR satellites. GEOSAR are geostationary the same as GPS satelites....

GPS satellites are not geostationary. The only place you can get a geostationary satellite is above the equator (more or less), at various altitudes. Such an orbit would give very poor position fixes to anyone near the equator.

GPS sat orbits although not random, are orbiting in different planes.

[MustRib]

thanks for all the goodwill messages chaps... lovely

I opted for the Searider approach to seat repair and spent most of the morning and lunchtime drilling the internal seat flange at Neyland marina on a berth (glad it wasnt raining) and slapped a bunch of stainless self tappers and a bunch of mastic on the floor. Seems as well fixed now as the rear jockey which is bolted.
I suited up and left Neyland about 2.30 pm heading direct route to Dun Laoghaire, showing 104 miles on the plotter. Checked in with the lovely peeps at Milford Haven Coast guard while transiting the sound. I have to admit it took a lot of will power to get back in the boat and specifically to point it at the open sea when leaving the sound. Bit like riding a bike, had to get back on. Passage was a little lumpy at the start so took my time, passed a lot of suicidal welsh sea birds, puffins, manx shearwater, guillemot...A couple of seals, and a porpoise. Sea quietened down mid St Georges channel. Then just ground down the miles. Had to come into Wicklow, for fuel as getting uncomfortably low, and was befriended by a Lithuanian guy who is the town street sweeper. He took me and my cans to the only petrol station that was open and then back again to the boat. I filled up and made it into Dun Laoghire b 9.30 pm ...moored up with the rest of the ribs and went to meet HMS for a glass of guiness..real Ice cold in Alex stuff. My shouder is still sore from the water impact, think that will take a few days to sort, but otherwise feel fine.

start tomorrow is 8.30 am ..yikes
thanks all

[MustRib]

and for those who were asking there is apparently footage shot from the Irish sea ferries ship that came to help, showing my recovery from the water, the helo departing and two minutes later coming back and winching me back onto my rib. I believe Tom Linley Swan has this footage. Maybe he will post it on here.

[Downhilldai]

Well done. :-)

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by MustRib

and for those who were asking there is apparently footage shot from the Irish sea ferries ship that came to help, showing my recovery from the water, the helo departing and two minutes later coming back and winching me back onto my rib. I believe Tom Linley Swan has this footage. Maybe he will post it on here.

If you meant me asking, I was more interested in the mechanics of how the seat had failed-sheared bolts/pulled out, broken flange-that kind of thing. It'd be a good one to see what breaks and how as it sounds like it took a hell of a bang.

Good luck for the rest of the trip

[Rogue Wave]

I've just finished my latest offshore work stint and am joining Team Searider at Bangor. Jurgen was telling me how fuel efficient and fast his new engine is.......I guess that's all gonna change once I drag my Fat Arse on the boat

Glad your allright Mustrib By the way PM sent plesee ignore as I see you are back in the saddle

[willk]

MustRib - what can I say - true grit!

I catch up with you guys in Killybegs.