RYA safety boat course anygood?

HDAV · 21 August 2017, 20:35

After a day marshalling an armada of jet skis on Sunday I am wondering if the RYA safety boat course may be useful, aimed at dingy events? Or useful course in general been a while since my PB2 and don't get to helm a decent rib very often and a 6.6 cobra in choppy conditions made me want to do more......

ShinyShoe · 21 August 2017, 22:12

Are you expecting to provide cover for Jet Ski's in future or all sorts of events.

A dinghy club / class association will be very pleased to have you with Safety Boat Cert. Some will be happy with PB2 but some will be much happier if you have SB.

Course covers: "Preparation, boat handling, dinghy rescue, windsurfer rescue, kayak or canoe rescue (can be covered as theory), towing, end-of-day procedures, safety, suitability of craft, local factors, communication, rescuing other water users"

I think you spend a decent proportion of time on dinghy rescue. It is afterall the main issue! So how to re-right dinghies that have capsized / inverted/ mast stuck etc.

Windsurf etc - is essentially how to transport them as they tow horrendously badly. But the majority of the course is covering dinghy rescue.

If you were to be doing JetSki cover you'd want to cover towing them coz I expect they are a pain.

I thought they covered mark laying as well but perhaps thats an extra sneaked in by some clubs.

While I see your attraction to safety cover as a way to get some ribbing done... ...my personal opinion is it can be a frustrating thing. You have to be first on and last off the water, you spend a lot of the time idling doing very little. Very occasionally you will be working hard. You don't get to choose where you go or when.

If you wanted to do a course to challenge your RIBbing I'd say go Intermediate. If you want to get in the Oppie Class Safety Boat Team - you'll want to do the SB Course. But they'd probably prefer it if you had your own RIB (or you may be crew)

HDAV · 22 August 2017, 11:23

It will be mostly be for jet skis for the foreseeable unless I offer my time to other groups. I might look at intermediate instead. Although several people have mentioned buying a rib I'm not in a position to buy one myself.

Having been a windsurfer and been been towed they are dreadful to tow rigged. I'd be doing the course with a training centre rather than a sailing club. I could look at the SBDA I guess

Ribochet · 22 August 2017, 12:38

RYA safety boat course any good?

Yes but this course, in particular, is only as good as the experience, knowledge and resources of the Instructor/RTC.

Unfortunately a PB2 Instructor can automatically run this course solely on the basis of them having a Safety Boat certificate - ie they do not require or need to receive any additional training.

Having run this course many many times - I still put a lot of preplanning into it and experience a great deal of responsibility during its duration and it scares me that it can be run by "ill prepared" Instructors with little or no experience.

ShinyShoe · 22 August 2017, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

It will be mostly be for jet skis for the foreseeable unless I offer my time to other groups. I might look at intermediate instead.

So you need to work out what the point of the safety boat course is...

- It will cover some bits around planning safety cover for events. BUT - if they aren't your events and you are not the safety officer it may only help in telling you what the SO should be doing and don't appear to be!

- I'm not entirely clear what the purpose of safety cover for JetSki's is? That's not to say you aren't needed but if I don't know then your instructor may not know. All the named craft are wind or self reliant on getting places. So much more likely to need help if it gets windy or goes too calm. JetSki's may need help if they have engine issues but can they self help?

- Are you a "mothership", a chaperone, a first aid boat, a mobile mechanic, a navigator, there to chase off others who might get in the jetski's way? Perhaps all of that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribochet

RYA safety boat course any good?

Yes but this course, in particular, is only as good as the experience, knowledge and resources of the Instructor/RTC.

And I guess finding one who has experience towing jetski's might prove "interesting". A sailing school can provide dinghies to practice towing. You'd need to have some ski's to pratice towing?

I'm guessing they need an alongside tow? What happens if you need to tow multiple ski's? Can they be towed astern? They look unstable to me but they may think the same about topper dinghies and you can tow 8-10 of them behind a rescue boat and they usually stay upright!

willk · 22 August 2017, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

I'm not entirely clear what the purpose of safety cover for JetSki's is? .......

Had me scratching my head for sure. I'm struggling with the idea of rescuing one! May be the RIB is to lend a veneer of respectability?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Are you ... there to chase off others who might get in the jetski's way?

ah no stop! Too funny!

HDAV · 22 August 2017, 16:33

Towing a ski (sit downs at least isnt an issue normally as they will tow each other on a long line happily) There aren't many/any courses available which are specific to the requirements.

I could ask for a custom syllabus from a training centre but that will likely cost alot more. I am lucky that i have a RYA training facility locally that has all of the equipment and runs the standard Safe Boat course course as well as PWC, PB2, Intermediate and others. Intermediate costs the same as safety boat so may go that route instead.

The purpose is to be better prepared and able to assist in the unlikely event of their being an issue.

Most likely is mechanical failure or rider injury.

Ribochet · 22 August 2017, 17:28

Just to be very clear - the RYA Safety Boat course is not in any way similar to the RYA Intermediate Powerboat course.

Listed below are the elements covered in the RYA Safety Boat course:
Preparation
Safety equipment
Assistance with race management
Crew communication
Boat handling and manoeuvres
Positioning in respect to fleet
Standing off another craft
Coming alongside underway
Dinghy (including high performance) and windsurfer rescue
Towing
Mark laying
Theory and background
Rescue of other water users
Communication
VHF
First aid

HDAV · 22 August 2017, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribochet

Just to be very clear - the RYA Safety Boat course is not in any way similar to the RYA Intermediate Powerboat course.

Listed below are the elements covered in the RYA Safety Boat course:
Preparation
Safety equipment
Assistance with race management
Crew communication
Boat handling and manoeuvres
Positioning in respect to fleet
Standing off another craft
Coming alongside underway
Dinghy (including high performance) and windsurfer rescue
Towing
Mark laying
Theory and background
Rescue of other water users
Communication
VHF
First aid

Yes and neither are intended for what i may find myself doing. The element in italic are of no benefit i can see. The other bits might be.

I'm spending my own money for 2 days on the water, intermediate would be great but i don't have a boat capable of putting the training into use and wont for the foreseeable, safety boat i may be more water time with be it marshalling jet skis or otherwise.

mikew4 · 22 August 2017, 17:37

I did Safety Boat a cpl of months ago. Its worth doing. You always learn a few things. Was principally around Dinghies. Nothing like practising in your own time though.

Ribochet · 22 August 2017, 18:41

For those who are interested - listed below are the elements covered in the RYA Intermediate Powerboat course
This is a real "cracker" of a course and should not be overlooked as if you cannot plan and run a passage in daylight then you will certainly not have any chance of doing so in darkness

Practical
Boat preparation
Understands of:
Protective clothing and safety equipment
Minimum level of equipment for a boat
Considerations of equipment required for longer passages
Stowage of equipment
Boat Handling
Knowledge of:
Effects of waves
Rougher conditions
Awareness of other water users
Mooring stern to between posts – med style mooring
Can:
Demonstrate awareness of wind and tide
Moore alongside in a marina – where applicable
Demonstrate the use of an appropriate length kill cord at all times
Pilotage:
Demonstrate a practical application of technique for pilotage in local waters
Passage making
Understands:
The need for pre-planning to include advice for returning at night
Can:
Apply the lessons learnt in the theory sessions and successfully complete a practical passage
Fix positions by traditional methods and electronic methods
Man over board:
Understands:
Techniques for picking a man over board in different conditions
Can:
Pick a man over board up
Theory session:
Planning a day cruise
Knowledge of:
Navigation
True and magnetic bearings
Chart symbols
Bearing and distance
Use of pilot books
Tidal diamonds and tidal atlas
Position lines
Use of marina locks – this can be covered practically Ocean Sports Tuition will do this as we refuel in Hythe marina which has a lock
Understands:
Longitude and latitude
Principles of GPS
Sources of weather forecasts and interruption of forecasts
Tidal heights and secondary ports
Can:
Using a plotter and plot a course to steer – CTS
Work out a tidal heights for standard ports using a tidal curve
Interpret lateral and cardinal buoyage
Implement IRPCS. Implement rule 5,7,8,9 12-19, 23
Use a GPS waypoint navigation and determine XTE, SOG, COG, BTW & DTW
Use a laminated chart afloat
Use a pilotage to enter an unfamiliar port by day
Explain how to make a emergency VHF call

davkt · 22 August 2017, 20:40

Intermediate doesn't cover night time passages in anything but very broad in case of emergency terms, that is for Advanced which is an even better course (particularly when on the night exercise you get shooting stars, phosphorescence in the water and the moonlight glinting off the snow covered mountain tops of Snowdonia!)

HDAV · 22 August 2017, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribochet

For those who are interested - listed below are the elements covered in the RYA Intermediate Powerboat course
This is a real "cracker" of a course and should not be overlooked as if you cannot plan and run a passage in daylight then you will certainly not have any chance of doing so in darkness

Practical
Boat preparation
Understands of:
Protective clothing and safety equipment
Minimum level of equipment for a boat
Considerations of equipment required for longer passages
Stowage of equipment
Boat Handling
Knowledge of:
Effects of waves
Rougher conditions
Awareness of other water users
Mooring stern to between posts – med style mooring
Can:
Demonstrate awareness of wind and tide
Moore alongside in a marina – where applicable
Demonstrate the use of an appropriate length kill cord at all times
Pilotage:
Demonstrate a practical application of technique for pilotage in local waters
Passage making
Understands:
The need for pre-planning to include advice for returning at night
Can:
Apply the lessons learnt in the theory sessions and successfully complete a practical passage
Fix positions by traditional methods and electronic methods
Man over board:
Understands:
Techniques for picking a man over board in different conditions
Can:
Pick a man over board up
Theory session:
Planning a day cruise
Knowledge of:
Navigation
True and magnetic bearings
Chart symbols
Bearing and distance
Use of pilot books
Tidal diamonds and tidal atlas
Position lines
Use of marina locks – this can be covered practically Ocean Sports Tuition will do this as we refuel in Hythe marina which has a lock
Understands:
Longitude and latitude
Principles of GPS
Sources of weather forecasts and interruption of forecasts
Tidal heights and secondary ports
Can:
Using a plotter and plot a course to steer – CTS
Work out a tidal heights for standard ports using a tidal curve
Interpret lateral and cardinal buoyage
Implement IRPCS. Implement rule 5,7,8,9 12-19, 23
Use a GPS waypoint navigation and determine XTE, SOG, COG, BTW & DTW
Use a laminated chart afloat
Use a pilotage to enter an unfamiliar port by day
Explain how to make a emergency VHF call

Certainly looks moor enjoyable than course setting and dinghy towing....

I'll look into doing that

GuyC · 22 August 2017, 22:06

Having retrieved a jet ski and driver from about mid way between Calshot and the Hamble River, my inexperience came to the fore when trying to work out where to position my RIB relative to the jet ski so of the syllabus of the two courses mentioned, the Safety Boat course would have the most relevance. I've no doubt the Intermediate would be the most enjoyable and useful for day to day boating.

The jet ski towed OK but the driver refused my offer to come aboard the RIB preferring to hold on to his jet ski and be dragged along as well. I think this was to try and avoid being spotted by his mates who weren't exactly sympathetic to his plight.

Poly · 22 August 2017, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribochet

Yes but this course, in particular, is only as good as the experience, knowledge and resources of the Instructor/RTC.

Its the downside of pb2 courses as well they can be run by schools/instructors who have never ribbed more than a few miles from base, and limited experience using different sizes and powers of boats.

Poly · 22 August 2017, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

After a day marshalling an armada of jet skis on Sunday I am wondering if the RYA safety boat course may be useful, aimed at dingy events? Or useful course in general been a while since my PB2 and don't get to helm a decent rib very often and a 6.6 cobra in choppy conditions made me want to do more......

If it's something you plan to do it could be useful, the routine stuff is trivial - it's when the sh*t meets the fan you need to realise you are the port of call. That means you could one day be infront of the coroner/sheriff at the inquest/inquiry explaining why you did or didn't do certain things. A course might make the difference to either what you do or how confident you would be justifying it. BUT I do have doubts about the experience of some safety boat crews I have seen (with all the training) to deal with a major issue if one arrises. They'll cope fine 99.9% of the time but the main reason they are there is for the 1:1000 crisis.

HDAV · 23 August 2017, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyC

Having retrieved a jet ski and driver from about mid way between Calshot and the Hamble River, my inexperience came to the fore when trying to work out where to position my RIB relative to the jet ski so of the syllabus of the two courses mentioned, the Safety Boat course would have the most relevance. I've no doubt the Intermediate would be the most enjoyable and useful for day to day boating.

The jet ski towed OK but the driver refused my offer to come aboard the RIB preferring to hold on to his jet ski and be dragged along as well. I think this was to try and avoid being spotted by his mates who weren't exactly sympathetic to his plight.

Was it a stand up or sit down? Sit downs generally tow better with minimal weight (Rider not on board), Haven't towed a stand up but know a man who has so i will ask.

GuyC · 25 August 2017, 03:11

It was a stand up ski and IIRC there was a haul loop on the front that he tied my stern line to.

The interesting thing is that whilst I consider myself to be pretty observant when I'm out and about, it was my son who spotted him about 30m to one side of my track. I've no doubt I would have seen him if he was in the way but it did surprise me somewhat that I failed to see him.

HDAV · 25 August 2017, 08:27

Ah yeah a standup may submarine if no weight on the tray.... better have the rider control it if possible, of coure if rider was injured then that's different and may be tricky to tow.

Andy_Rs600 · 25 August 2017, 12:43

Interesting thread guys.

An observation - the main thing the safetyboat course should teach you (if it's taught sensibly) is an attitude to approaching casualty vessels, injured people, etc in the water. Most courses will be run with sailing boats but the overall principles of boat positioning, approach, casualty recovery, etc are all the same regardless of the type of vessel. Things to consider when organising a tow are likewise not vessel specific.

Anyway - a question from a non-skiier - how much do the stand-up skis weigh? It seems pretty obvious that they are going to tow really really badly. I'd be tempted to try to tow them off the A-Frame top on a relatively short line to keep the bow up perhaps with a little trailing drag attached.