Safety, Now the Summer is here ... - Page 2

Daibheid · 04 July 2007, 10:15

Thank you - this is a real cautionary tale for all of us and I'm happy to contribute my €.02.

I keep the killcord attached to me with newbies on the helm and always sit on the tubes to have access to the throttle and trim - even if I get a wet ass!
No-one rides in the bow above displacement, both because of the amplified pitch effects up there and the risk of going over the bow and down the keel rather than off to either side.
I'm not convinced slowing right down is a good idea. I've had the experience of crashing off the first wake wave into the front of the steep second one trying that approach. At best very, very wet and potentially burst tubes. This is a difficult call and IMHO comes down to the distance between and steepness of the wake waves vs the length of your boat. If they're close you're better planing through while with a shorter boat and spaced out wake waves it's safer to go over slowly to allow the boat ride up the second one. Unfortunately from the Rib it's almost impossible to assess this as you approach so turning away is probably the only safe/dry option!

Finally I'd just like to suggest that, unless you have a Mariner/Mercury kill switch, you double check that the spare kill-cord clip is present and that whomever you're hoping will come retreive you knows where it is and how to use it!

J S · 04 July 2007, 12:01

When i did my powerboat Instructors course we were first of all told to sit beside the throttle controls so if there was a problem it would be easy for you to sort it out immediately. We were also told that if we were running a child's powerboat level 1 or we had someone very nervous onboard we sould wear a killcord as well as the student at the helm and it would be connected in a way in which if either the instructor or the student fell out it would not take them both.

Below is an extract from wavelength an instructors newletter which shows how the kill cord should be connected.

Hope this is of some help to people.

James

Peter J · 04 July 2007, 13:02

Genoa,

Did the Gin Palace notice what happened and try to help?

I know it's not strictly speaking his problem that you drove into his wake but on a wider point should a skipper turn around if he sees a boat get in difficulties in his wake?

codprawn · 04 July 2007, 13:19

We had a bad experience when we were in our 3.1m SIB on the river/estuary at Pembroke. It isn't exactly a big boat and it was our first time out. I know I should have been keeping a better all around look but we were doing about 22kts so I wasn't paying that much attention behind us.

A large powerboat - something like a 37' Fairline Targe or similar - overtook us at about 40kts - he then carved a turn right across our path to get into the marina. The wake was massive - especially from a 3.1m SIB - I turned into it head on and slowed right down and we were ok but it could have been very different. Why the hell he couldn't have turned behind us is beyond me. Should have taken the boat's name.

Carl · 04 July 2007, 13:35

just quickly read this thread and unless i missed it im surprised nobody mentioned going through a wake at an angle,not head on or completely side on,its much more comfortable and you can normally keep your speed up

alexm · 04 July 2007, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl

just quickly read this thread and unless i missed it im surprised nobody mentioned going through a wake at an angle,not head on or completely side on,its much more comfortable and you can normally keep your speed up

I think the problem with this is if it's a really big wake you could get turned side on and swamped! The idea of tackling it head on is so there is no sideways turning forces on the boat.

genoa · 04 July 2007, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

Genoa,

Did the Gin Palace notice what happened and try to help?

To be honest, I have no idea!
It was my 10 year old daughter in the water. I was focused on where she was and condition whilst installing myself in driving position by feel. I didn't take my eye of her!

As is often the case, the best help from her would have been to hove to at a reasonable distance and call for help if required. - I have never seen a GP do man over board drill (what do they do?

?) The only bit that you could possibly get onto is that platform over their props and I don't see how they could get hold of you far enough away from those and drag you around...

genoa · 04 July 2007, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by J S

Below is an extract from wavelength an instructors newletter which shows how the kill cord should be connected.

Hope this is of some help to people.

James

This is great!!
I appreciate it is an excerpt from on instructors newsletter, but this is the sort of really useful content/ideas that we less experieinced ribsters could really do with. Lets have more in more threads!!

vince · 04 July 2007, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apherel

I often have friends or the kids helming, and I find the most worrying aspect is not having control of the throttle (which is located on the outside of the consol and difficult to reach). On my next boat I'm planning to have dual pod seats and the throttle centre mounted so that it is easy to assist or takeover engine control if needed. Would also mean that the kill switch could be located centrally and I could remain attached to it!

We didnt have the option of the centre throttle, but what we did do was to retro fit a kill switch in the middle of the console near the bottom, so that it can be attached to somebody experienced! You dont have much chance of reaching the throttle if you have to lean right over.
On the subject of someone being ejected from the boat, we always appoint a lookout. If it happens on our boat, then that person has the sole job of keeping an arm pointing in the direction of the subject in the water. It means the driver can concentrate on the mob recovery, and he knows where the person is in the water at all times.

Neil Harvey · 04 July 2007, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

Genoa,

Did the Gin Palace notice what happened and try to help?

I know it's not strictly speaking his problem that you drove into his wake but on a wider point should a skipper turn around if he sees a boat get in difficulties in his wake?

Although it's not his problem, I honestly believe that we have a duty to stop and help anyone we see in danger etc whilst out on the water. If you realise that is.
cahnces are, he would not have noticed what was happening behind him, especially in a Gin Palace.

Sarah G · 04 July 2007, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

On the subject of someone being ejected from the boat, we always appoint a lookout. If it happens on our boat, then that person has the sole job of keeping an arm pointing in the direction of the subject in the water. It means the driver can concentrate on the mob recovery, and he knows where the person is in the water at all times.

This was taught to us during our PB2 as well. It allows the skipper to control the boat and not have to worry about the Mob position.

We went out for our first trip last weekend and it was really rough (for me) over the Chichester bar. The interesting thing is that as Skipper, the biggest problem I had was that my husband was sitting in the suicide seat which
1) blocked my vision - couldn't see another boat which was really close, and
2) I was really nervous as the waves were really big and there is no where to really hold on.

I have learnt that nobody sits up front unless at anchor or going really slowly - but even then as it is clear the wash of another boat can cause chaos.

When we bought the boat, the previous owner didn't have a spare killcord - his argument was that if he fell overboard, he didn't want a novice to come and rescue him and possibly hit him. I can see his argument but having seen how quickly distance and visibility can be lost, this isn't the answer.

I have two full sets of keys and kill cord. Before setting off on Saturday, I explained where the keys were - very easy at hand.

Having said that, in the big waves - the new killcord was very tight and short and I managed to kill the engine, by standing up - which didn't improve the nerves either!!!!

I don't think Genoa has anything to feel bad about - thank you for sharing and I agree that your thread is more important than the Virgin -

Neil Harvey · 04 July 2007, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

On the subject of someone being ejected from the boat, we always appoint a lookout. If it happens on our boat, then that person has the sole job of keeping an arm pointing in the direction of the subject in the water. It means the driver can concentrate on the mob recovery, and he knows where the person is in the water at all times.

I am not sure that goes far enough. Everyone on board should have the job of being lookout. and if they spot a MOB, they should keep eyes fixed and pointing at the casualty. This is what I tell my crew in safety briefings. The chances of your one appointed lookout seeing the MOB go over, or finding them quickly when someone else shouts MOB have to be lower than the chances of the original "spotter" keeping track of them.

genoa · 04 July 2007, 18:25

As a yachtmaster instructor I teach the same. At the shout of man overboard get someone to watch them. In a yacht travelling at speed you can be 100m away and still have no way of slowing - with a spinnaker up (thats the big colourful one up front) it can take minutes to get the boat stopped let alone think about returning.

However, what this taught me was real life is not an exercise. That was my 10 year old, not a bucket and fender!! I could not take my eyes off her after seeing her thrown like a rag doll, was she ok, did her lifejacket do the job etc etc. Don't think you'll be any different when it happens for real, to your nearest and dearest.

codprawn · 04 July 2007, 18:52

Sarah there is no harm in people sitting up front IF the conditions allow it and the helm keeps a good watch at all times.

Neil Harvey · 04 July 2007, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by genoa

As a yachtmaster instructor I teach the same. At the shout of man overboard get someone to watch them. In a yacht travelling at speed you can be 100m away and still have no way of slowing - with a spinnaker up (thats the big colourful one up front) it can take minutes to get the boat stopped let alone think about returning.

Agreed, I've done MOB driills on tallships (square sails, pirate ship type things), spot the MOB, throw over lifejackets, rings etc at an interval for following back whilst rib launched, spotters up the masts etc, and the rib still has trouble finding the casualty. It's also amazing how difficult it is to spot a MOB with just small waves, even from high up on a tall ship mast!
Luckily, in a RIB it should never take so long, and turning for the pick up is much quicker.
Definitely something I hope won't happen to me.

BogMonster · 04 July 2007, 19:01

Interesting, and just proves that you can never be prepared for the unexpected....

Travelling right up in the bow is very exhilarating but I must admit I have always been conscious of the possibility of going over and underneath the boat is anything happened - it's only ever been done on a flat calm day (not that common here!) and there isn't a lot of other traffic.

Also interesting to see how to do dual killcords - must remember that one...

Neil Harvey · 04 July 2007, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Also interesting to see how to do dual killcords - must remember that one...

It is, but don't think it will work on my Evinrude, so may have to go down the route of another kill switch mounted to the console for the 'instructing' co-pilot. But i guess then you need 2 spares in case both helm and co-pilot go in, so the remaining passengers can start up again? Presumably, if both are ripped out, and there is only one spare, the engine can't be started?

alexm · 04 July 2007, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

It is, but don't think it will work on my Evinrude, so may have to go down the route of another kill switch mounted to the console for the 'instructing' co-pilot. But i guess then you need 2 spares in case both helm and co-pilot go in, so the remaining passengers can start up again? Presumably, if both are ripped out, and there is only one spare, the engine can't be started?

I'm pretty sure that most newer kill switches allow you to restart the engine once without the kill cord after it has been activated for this very reason.

Neil Harvey · 04 July 2007, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexm

I'm pretty sure that most newer kill switches allow you to restart the engine once without the kill cord after it has been activated for this very reason.

will have to check - thanks

alexm · 04 July 2007, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

will have to check - thanks

To be honest I haven't tried on my own boat yet (Yamaha) either but I recently saw an instructor demo it on his Evinrude. He said it's a recent thing. Its definitely worth checking!

My previous boat had a flick switch type which was easy enough to reset without a chord!