Safety, Now the Summer is here ... - Page 3

vince · 04 July 2007, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by genoa

As a yachtmaster instructor I teach the same. At the shout of man overboard get someone to watch them. In a yacht travelling at speed you can be 100m away and still have no way of slowing - with a spinnaker up (thats the big colourful one up front) it can take minutes to get the boat stopped let alone think about returning.

However, what this taught me was real life is not an exercise. That was my 10 year old, not a bucket and fender!! I could not take my eyes off her after seeing her thrown like a rag doll, was she ok, did her lifejacket do the job etc etc. Don't think you'll be any different when it happens for real, to your nearest and dearest.

Good point, you must have really thought the worst when it happened. I'm glad it turned out alright. Even though it will be difficult to remember any sort of drill in a bad situation like the one you experienced, any safety measures/drills that you can put in place on a boat will make it that bit safer for all. What happened to your daughter was not an everyday occurance that you can plan for, and having 3 daughters myself its something that i dread happening. The general idea of a designated lookout is a good one, in most situations. I'm glad it turned out ok Genoa

genoa · 05 July 2007, 09:22

Hi all, much good stuff about kill cords etc

. And thanks all for the nice words

about it all turning out ok. It was horrible!
However she didn't see it that way especially when the new wardrobe arrived.

What I would like is some more feedback on the line of approach to a big wake and any other tactics for avoiding the accident happening (we will not be using the bow deck on passage again!)

Genoa.

J S · 05 July 2007, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexm

I'm pretty sure that most newer kill switches allow you to restart the engine once without the kill cord after it has been activated for this very reason.

I think that is just on the mercury/mariner ones with the flick switch isn't it.

James

alexm · 05 July 2007, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by J S

I think that is just on the mercury/mariner ones with the flick switch isn't it.

James

Yes, the flick switch ones are easy, but I have seen a restart demoed on a new etec which have the clip type kill cords.

Just to make sure I wasn't going completely mad here is an extract from the Evinrude Etec user manual:

Quote:

In an emergency situation, the
engine can be started without the clip in place.
Follow the normal starting procedure. Reinstall
a clip as soon as possible.

I haven't tried it on my Yamaha yet... but I will do next time I take it out as it's definitely worth knowing whether you need a spare kill cord or not!

DJL · 05 July 2007, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexm

it's definitely worth knowing whether you need a spare kill cord or not!

You should definitely have a spare kill cord and keep it readily available - I keep mine on the back of the front passenger seat.

If the helms gone overboard then it’s reasonable to assume that conditions are such that it could happen again during MOB recovery (less so if it was cause by wake)
You may find that the kill cord has been lost when you recover the MOB - you then have no kill cord for the journey home
You may have a less experienced crew member at the helm while recovering the MOB. It would therefore seem sensible to make sure they're using the kill cord to stop them moving away from the helm or incase they get ejected.

BogMonster · 05 July 2007, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexm

I'm pretty sure that most newer kill switches allow you to restart the engine once without the kill cord after it has been activated for this very reason.

The (presumably standard) ignition/kill switch on my Johnson certainly does that, but when you put the kill cord back on it kills the engine again, so you have to choose your moment carefully! I carry a spare one in the locker anyway, on the basis that if the one I am wearing breaks or gets lost I don't want to be travelling any distance without one.

Nick Hearne · 05 July 2007, 13:07

That do other people think about putting out a "May Day" as soon as a MOB happens? I have to say I think it is a bit over the top but it is recommended!

Sarah G · 05 July 2007, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

That do other people think about putting out a "May Day" as soon as a MOB happens? I have to say I think it is a bit over the top but it is recommended!

I think weather and situation would dictate this. If calm, person has lifejacket, not too busy - probably not. If F7, huge waves in shipping channel then definitely yes. Anything in between - skippers call.

genoa · 05 July 2007, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

people think about putting out a "May Day" as soon as a MOB happens?

I believe up until about 10 years ago Man Overboard only constituted a Pan Pan call. It was then changed to May Day only if "there is imminent or likely threat to life" otherwise it is still a Pan Pan, or, as Sarah says get them out of the water before anyone else gets involved.

Neil Harvey · 05 July 2007, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by genoa

I believe up until about 10 years ago Man Overboard only constituted a Pan Pan call. It was then changed to May Day only if "there is imminent or likely threat to life" otherwise it is still a Pan Pan, or, as Sarah says get them out of the water before anyone else gets involved.

On my VHF course last year (or was it PB2), we were told MOB is always a MAYDAY

jyasaki · 05 July 2007, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

On the subject of someone being ejected from the boat, we always appoint a lookout. If it happens on our boat, then that person has the sole job of keeping an arm pointing in the direction of the subject in the water. It means the driver can concentrate on the mob recovery, and he knows where the person is in the water at all times.

The only problem with that is it assumes that the designated lookout sees the casualty.

IMO, everyone should be a designated lookout. Whoever has eyes on the casualty, keeps eyes (and fingers) on the casualty.

While I have never had a MOB situation, I have lost stuff in the wake; usually, I am the only one who can keep an eye on the item. Pointing it out only leads to a bunch of "Nope, don't see it. Where, again?" ... and I'm the one wearing glasses...

jky

vince · 05 July 2007, 18:23

Thats true as well, however, I personally would rather have someone who has done the pb2 course to act as sole lookout, as they know the procedure, lifting them back on the boat etc. But i also realise thats not always possible to have them on the boat, so yes, everyone should have eyes peeled and be told what to do in case this happens.

By the way, our navman has an MOB red button that you can press, which apparently will then give you the exact position of where they fell in, providing of course you hit the button at the exact time they went in!
Has anyone ever made use of this feature, or is it a useless gimick?

Biggles · 05 July 2007, 18:35

That button also doubles as a marker that you can use to mark all sorts of points not just MOB.

Its a good idea but probably only of use to someone who is used to using the GPS and works well under stress.

Hightower · 05 July 2007, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

Thats true as well, however, I personally would rather have someone who has done the pb2 course to act as sole lookout, as they know the procedure, lifting them back on the boat etc. But i also realise thats not always possible to have them on the boat, so yes, everyone should have eyes peeled and be told what to do in case this happens.

By the way, our navman has an MOB red button that you can press, which apparently will then give you the exact position of where they fell in, providing of course you hit the button at the exact time they went in!
Has anyone ever made use of this feature, or is it a useless gimick?

I used his feature on the PBII course I went on and to be completely honest it was a waste of time do it. I couldn't take my eye off the casualty (a Bucket and buoy) as I was worried I couldn't find the mark again. I think the only place for MOB button is on a Yacht where turning around to recover the MOB would be time consuming.

genoa · 05 July 2007, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince

our navman has an MOB red button that you can press, which apparently will then give you the exact position of where they fell in, providing of course you hit the button at the exact time they went in!
Has anyone ever made use of this feature, or is it a useless gimick?

Thing is, in a rib you can just turn around and get the casualty pretty easy, so you waste time playing with the gizmos. In addition it is not easy to think about line of approach etc if your eyeballing a 5" screen and the water infront.

We did try and use it on the yacht with the bucket and fender, but with a decent tide running, in the 5 minutes it took to get back, the casualty had drifted. If it had been foggy we'd probably of lost 'him.' - The GPS records absolute position, not relative which would be finominal - For this, there is now a really clever gizmo from Raymarine which is like a personal Epirb, that will help you track back to the casualty, not the position they fell in. - A bit beyond our needs, me thinks ...

Hightower · 05 July 2007, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by genoa

Thing is, in a rib you can just turn around and get the casualty pretty easy, so you waste time playing with the gizmos. In addition it is not easy to think about line of approach etc if your eyeballing a 5" screen and the water infront.

We did try and use it on the yacht with the bucket and fender, but with a decent tide running, in the 5 minutes it took to get back, the casualty had drifted. If it had been foggy we'd probably of lost 'him.' - The GPS records absolute position, not relative which would be finominal - For this, there is now a really clever gizmo from Raymarine which is like a personal Epirb, that will help you track back to the casualty, not the position they fell in. - A bit beyond our needs, me thinks ...

The thing is. If you use a MOB feature on your RIB or Yacht you are marking an Absolute position. Yes your MOB might have drifted and you might not be able to find your casualty, but if you a very experienced navigator or the rescue services get involved this Co-ordinate will be used as a central point for a search and rescue.

Do GPS's note the time that the MOB button was pushed, I can't remember?

Biggles · 05 July 2007, 21:13

Regarding the MOB function, for me personally I have only thought it would possibly be of use to aid you in giving an initial position to the coastguard. At least gives them a start point for working out drift of a casualty etc if a rescue is needed.

Saves trying to fiddle with buttons to get estiamted position when the MOB has done it for you and shows you the position long enough for you to send on.

Alternatively if you were quick you could send a DSC message.