Scot suspension seats

[Steve_B]

With you and Rick at the Helm, everyone got a first class ride every time!

Even with the suspention seats, I would retain the present layout, but that may remain a pipe dream for a while at least, price has to become more realistic

[Tony]

Thanks for all the replies.
Looks like its a toss up between Xcraft and Scot seats then..

Tony

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by Xcraft

retail prices:

X-Craft comfort seat: 2175 GBP
X-Craft comfort plus (hydraulicaly adjustable): 2340 GBP

That's alot of £££s no matter how you look at it.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Tony

Thanks for all the replies.
Looks like its a toss up between Xcraft and Scot seats then..

Tony

Try before you buy.

[Syp]

that just what i'm gonna do next week. as far as i know and have compaired, x-craft isn't that expensive at all. competitors are even more expensive... however i will make a seatrial myselve.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Syp

that just what i'm gonna do next week. as far as i know and have compaired, x-craft isn't that expensive at all. competitors are even more expensive... however i will make a seatrial myselve.

It would be fantastic if you could share your results..

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by 250kts

Good God, if the new anti-vibration legislation forces companies to have these seats, a) you will be a rich man and/or b) all commercial RIBs will be finished!

So for me that would be 14 x £2175= £30450 ....

Would you actually need them for the passengers or just the crew? Assuming the legislation is to protect workers from long term exposure then:-
a, the passengers aren't employees & may not be covered by the legislation
b, the passengers wouldn't be subject to long term exposure.

We have HAV (Hand Arm Vibration)limits for tools & equipment, the limits are based on daily exposure, a "one off" exposure wouldn't register. You're more likely to be sued by a passenger for a whiplash injury or similar due to being jarred in the rough rather than a vibration injury which occurs over time & repeated exposure. If the legislation does cover passengers, then theme parks can look out!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Would you actually need them for the passengers or just the crew? Assuming the legislation is to protect workers from long term exposure then:-
a, the passengers aren't employees & may not be covered by the legislation
b, the passengers wouldn't be subject to long term exposure.

as I understand it the regulations are enforced under the Health and Safety at Work Act - which applies to employees and others who may be affected by your opperation. Accordingly they will be covered. However you are correct passengers won't be subject to continual exposure so may have lower risk - however consider the following factors:

(i) how would you feel as a paying passenger realising that the crew are better protected than you
(ii) shock loads are normally worse the further forward you are - on most commercial vessels the crew sit at the back (in the comfiest spot), There are good reasons for this - but it will also reduce their exposure.
(iii) is it a good idea for the guy with the throttle to be on a much more comfortable / shock mitigating seat? will he be as aware how his driving style is affecting passenger comfort / safety

We have HAV (Hand Arm Vibration)limits for tools & equipment, the limits are based on daily exposure, a "one off" exposure wouldn't register. You're more likely to be sued by a passenger for a whiplash injury or similar due to being jarred in the rough rather than a vibration injury which occurs over time & repeated exposure.

its not the low amplitude high frequency vibration that shock mitigation seats are designed to reduce - it is the high impact low frequency events (covered by the same regulations) - and musculoskeletal injuries are exactly the sort of problem they aim to prevent.

If the legislation does cover passengers, then theme parks can look out!!

The legislation will cover theme parks. But a theme park is actually a highly predictable and controllable situation. There is normally no human factor (driver) in determining the "impact" level and no variable sea state either.

Whilst there is obviously a market for Shock Mitigation Seats for people who must go to sea in poor weather; the argument is not so convincing for a typical sea safari type business where they typically won't go out in poor conditions. There might be a market for a relatively low cost sensor/logging system which proved that the shock levels were OK.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Polwart

(i) how would you feel as a paying passenger realising that the crew are better protected than you
That's usually the case any way, the crew are doing it day in, day out & I would expect them to have better/personal gear(ii) shock loads are normally worse the further forward you are - on most commercial vessels the crew sit at the back (in the comfiest spot), There are good reasons for this - but it will also reduce their exposure.
again, better for the crew when exposed to day to day exposure
(iii) is it a good idea for the guy with the throttle to be on a much more comfortable / shock mitigating seat? will he be as aware how his driving style is affecting passenger comfort / safety
the punters are usually out for the adrenaline ride & are expecting to be bumped about & maybe get a tad damp, caveat emptor. Again, it's the crew that are being subject to the repeat exposure & need protecting. Unless we know what the exposure limits & definitions are in the regs, we are plaiting fog.

This might help .

[chris123]

There is a bit of background information here:

http://www.highspeedcraft.org/HSC_HF...Guide_v1.0.pdf

Page 38 onwards covers boat motions.

Commercial operators have a duty of care to their customers as well as their employees. A lot of customers may never have been on a RIB or other high speed craft - it is not really fair to expect them to assess the risk, particularly if the operator's advertising states that the rib trip is suitable for all, as many do.

I haven't looked into the figures myself, but from those that have I understand that in moderate conditions you may reach the daily limit in a matter of minutes and in extreme conditions (where to be fair a rib trip is unlikely to operate) it comes down to a matter of seconds.

Polwart's point with regard to the drawbacks of giving the crew shock mitigation seats is a good one - there is anecdotal evidence of crew inadvertently driving boats harder due to a lower perception of conditions and boat motions, although this again may not be relevant to the sort of conditions a RIB ride would operate in.

Cheers

Chris

[joakimhansson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22DOF...eature=related

Scot

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by joakimhansson

Scot

bugger me, IMHO there must be a way of shrouding the mechanism! Seeing these suspension seats working shows the forces applied and the potential for anything caught in it either a) buggering the mechanism or b)severely damaging the obstruction be it a kill cord, flailing passenger foot etc

I certainly wouldn't have these in the status quo so close together on a small open rib!

[joakimhansson]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

bugger me, IMHO there must be a way of shrouding the mechanism! Seeing these suspension seats working shows the forces applied and the potential for anything caught in it either a) buggering the mechanism or b)severely damaging the obstruction be it a kill cord, flailing passenger foot etc

I certainly wouldn't have these in the status quo so close together on a small open rib!

I think ullman is little better, but most of them looks like this

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by joakimhansson

I think ullman is little better, but most of them looks like this

I personally think they have all got it wrong. In some martial arts its taught, by controlling a persons upper body, head, shoulders as high as possible you can lead them in a direction... but in more guru wording. lol

Yet most of the suspension jockey seats have little or NO side support. See how much upper movement there is in the drivers body, if his head and shoulders lost balance, his legs wouldnt stand a chance...

[joakimhansson]

Maybe this one, with seatbelts

[gtflash]

Originally Posted by joakimhansson

Maybe this one, with seatbelts

no side support again !

[joakimhansson]

[Hightower]

That's a RIC. . . Rigid Inflatable Chair.

Do these sell at over inflated prices as well?

[Syp]

Originally Posted by Tony

It would be fantastic if you could share your results..

Dear Tony,
I have tried the X-Craft seats last Saturday. Arriving at the factory, X-Craft owner Niels showed me their range of seats and how the Comfort (Plus) seats are produced. I have also seen their Full Carbon version. What a nice state of the art wannahave! Carbon in combination with Titanium is always appealing.
Anyhow, while having winds of 6 Bft and very choppy waves, testing these seats couldn’t be done at much better conditions. These suspension systems are really exceptional. So much comfort (this should be where it’s name is coming from :o) ), strong build, giving you all the confidence to sail in even worse conditions. I was really impressed. Not only by the quality and functionality (primary focus), also positively surprised with regards to their pricing and customization possibilities. Their standard seats can be tailored with regards to colors, upholstery, seat height, powder coating or anodizing and special tailor made seat frames. Last mentioned wasn’t interesting for me as I “only” needed 4 seats in total.

I have seen and sea trialed the Ullman seats on a couple of boats. Have also seen the Scot seats (during the METS 2009) of which I am very skeptical with regards to their seat motion sideways… To me the X-Craft suspension system feels (and looks) the best option quality wise. On top of that they are also cheaper than the Ullman and Scot seats! Finally, I was so impressed and drove back to Belgium, having bought 4 Comfort seats, to be delivered within 2 weeks!

Tony, all the best with your decision making process and I hope my comment is useful for you.
Rgds,

Syp de la Mar

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Syp

Dear Tony,
I have tried the X-Craft seats last Saturday. Arriving at the factory, X-Craft owner Niels showed me their range of seats and how the Comfort (Plus) seats are produced. I have also seen their Full Carbon version. What a nice state of the art wannahave! Carbon in combination with Titanium is always appealing.
Anyhow, while having winds of 6 Bft and very choppy waves, testing these seats couldn’t be done at much better conditions. These suspension systems are really exceptional. So much comfort (this should be where it’s name is coming from :o) ), strong build, giving you all the confidence to sail in even worse conditions. I was really impressed. Not only by the quality and functionality (primary focus), also positively surprised with regards to their pricing and customization possibilities. Their standard seats can be tailored with regards to colors, upholstery, seat height, powder coating or anodizing and special tailor made seat frames. Last mentioned wasn’t interesting for me as I “only” needed 4 seats in total.

I have seen and sea trialed the Ullman seats on a couple of boats. Have also seen the Scot seats (during the METS 2009) of which I am very skeptical with regards to their seat motion sideways… To me the X-Craft suspension system feels (and looks) the best option quality wise. On top of that they are also cheaper than the Ullman and Scot seats! Finally, I was so impressed and drove back to Belgium, having bought 4 Comfort seats, to be delivered within 2 weeks!

Tony, all the best with your decision making process and I hope my comment is useful for you.
Rgds,

Syp de la Mar

Thank you very much for your summary. Gives me more insight into the product..
Thanks
Tony