Sea trials

[Hightower]

Hi Doug. I know and am sorry that you have been mucked around in the past, I'm sure it happens all the time (motor trade also).

You don't have to offer them one of your courses to let them trial the boat. If you had a buyer that had already looked inside and out of the RIB you were selling, and had agreed a purchase price subject to a Sea trial why not charge him for the out of pocket expenses (fuel, mooring/launching fee and labour) before said trial? See the colour of his money! That way everyone is happy!

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

But Doug's not a boat salesman though is he? I think his approach is much more sensible.

But he is John, he's selling a boat!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Hightower

If you had a buyer that had already looked inside and out of the RIB you were selling, and had agreed a purchase price subject to a Sea trial why not charge him for the out of pocket expenses (fuel, mooring/launching fee and labour) before said trial?!

But that's exactly to sort of sea trial this thread isn't about. Some people seem to think that anyone with a boat for sale should give them a go in it.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

But that's exactly to sort of sea trial this thread isn't about. Some people seem to think that anyone with a boat for sale should give them a go in it.

Well that's part of the negotiation, isn't it? If neither party reach agreement the sale won't go ahead. I was suggesting ways that would be of benefit both the buyer and seller.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

To a certain extent I think you made a masive error in the first place, you need to qualify the buyer,...

I am qualifying the buyer- Is he prepared to proceed and just wants piece of mind that he is spending his hard earned bucks wisely OR is he telling me he wants to proceed but actually has got no idea what he wants?[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

Maybe the problem is that many boat manufacturers or people who have boats for sale are not sales people and so dont ask the relevant questions which may prevent a wasted trip....

Im not a boat manufacturer but I have done a bit of selling. In this case I'm advertising a very precise product, it already exists, there are no options for me to qualify, its simply a case of do you want the boat i am selling or do you not? Every salesman on here will recognise that you can ask all the qualifying questions you like but the answers mean nothing until the person answering them actually move to a deposit.

Originally Posted by Hightower

If you had a buyer that had already looked inside and out of the RIB you were selling, and had agreed a purchase price subject to a Sea trial why not charge him for the out of pocket expenses (fuel, mooring/launching fee and labour) before said trial? See the colour of his money! That way everyone is happy!

Im not against that idea, we are both however arguing the same point. Sea trial is for someone who knows they want your boat and wants to proceed.

Originally Posted by John Kennett

But that's exactly to sort of sea trial this thread isn't about. Some people seem to think that anyone with a boat for sale should give them a go in it.

John's point is very valid

[Dan Gurney]

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Being the vender that has probably raised this with the OP by PM, I should probably offer my 2 cents worth.

Not entirely you Doug, I had conversation about this topic with Jeff Hutcheon in May where he recounted his experience of travelling to the south coast looking at RIBs. I had assumed his experience was to do with dealers and so was slightly surprised to get the same reaction from a semi-private seller.

I have a used boat to sell, it’s a main brand RIB, built by one of the biggest RIB builders in the UK, there is nothing quirky about it and I am offering it for a good price. If you want a 6m fairly new Deep V RIB, with 6 seats then it should fit the bill. The other variables such as engine size are all known variables.

It's a main brand RIB but there isn't a ton of opinion around on the web that I can see. Not like RC/Ribeye/Brig. I don't know what you mean by engine size is a known variable? It has the smallest engine option XS offer. Perhaps not a sparkling performer? The only way to know would be to try it.

If you are after something else then a sea trial does not help either of us.

I know what I want: I want the things I like about my current boat, but without the thing I don't like about my current boat. Or the best combination I think the XS600 may be the boat I'm looking for but I'm not sure. I have actually used one, 2 and a half years ago on my PB2 at Cumbrae, but I didn't know anything about RIBs then.

If your new to boating and not yet sure what sort of boat you want, then we sell a range of courses where you get an instructor’s time and knowledge.

That's very kind of you, but I've done a PB2 course and it didn't tell me what kind of boat I wanted. Unless you have a range 6m ribs with various engines on then I don't think it's going to.

A potential buyer who is not really sure if he actually wants an XS600 or not will take me away from time with my kids on my day off or will cost me a staff member’s wages for a half day. There is of course fuel costs and engine hours as well.

Happy to pay launch/fuel costs. Not sure about wages. And I don't think it would be reasonable to expect to be driving around for 'hours'. Obviously as a vendor it all adds up I suppose, but worst case scenario you put 20 hrs on the engine during the sale selling process.

I would happily take a series buyer out to prove the boat does what I say it will but a buyer has to prove they are series first. This is a standard boat, there are no surprises.

How do I prove I'm serious? Drive 500 miles? Price up a trailer from XS? Do a bunch of research on the internet? How do you know if I've done those things unless you ask? I'm not going to take offence if you do, specially if you explain that you've been jerked around in the past.

To fill you in on a little history

A number of years back we launched, and fueled our old Arctic RIB for a perspective buyer, we took him out for an hour or so and paid the marina to recover the boat. When we asked the buyer what he thought, his reply was, “I’m not really looking for an open transom boat.”

Three weeks ago I met a potential buyer early in the morning, he had sounded very keen on the phone and I decided he was worth meeting before work. I rearranged the school run with my wife, moved a morning meeting for 13 staff at work and I told him my bottom line price before we met . After the sea trial he said he liked it but it was out of his price range!

Consequently I have absolutely no interest in taking people out who “might like” to buy my RIB. They can view it, they can ask all the questions they like about it, I can evidence various paperwork, they can start the engine up, they can see the trim going up and down, they can hear it run, they can select forward and reverse, they can take the cowling off and have a look. They can feel the steering, they can check the tubes, they can inspect the underside of the hull on the versadock, they can switch on the instruments, they can test the VHF, they can see the GPS get a fix, they can give it a thorough going over. If we reach a deal I will then gladly take them on a sea trial to prove the boat does what I have said it does.

Comparing this to a car dealer whose job is to sell cars or to a boat dealer who sells a wide range of new boats is I think a little unfair. My job is not to help a possible RIB buyer select which is the right RIB for him, my task is to sell my RIB. Consequently I am selling my boat a lot cheaper than a trade sale.

I realize some vendors might behave differently but I own 12 boats, they are all on a regular replacement programme and I sell a few every year. I am honest about what I am selling and I have met far too many “buyers” who are not honest about their intentions. Getting caught out recently by the early morning buyer was very naïve of me and shows that even when I thought the guy was genuine he was a time waster.

No offence intended to the original OP, I’m just trying to explain this vendor's experience and point of view. Best of luck with your hunt for a new RIB.

It certainly appears you've had you're fair share of pretty egregious time wasters, for which I sympathize. But that's not my fault, and it's not the fault of the next person who expresses an interest in your RIB either.

Best of luck with the sale.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

Things Like
When are you thinking of purchasing ?
Open or cabin boat sir ?
Price range ?
New or used ?
Inshore or offshore ?
How many in your family ?
How many times a year might you use it ?
Marina berth, dry stack or trailer sir ?
Sunny calm days or all year round sir ?
Uk or europe or med activity ?
What training have you had ?
Your favourite colour sir ?

There is only one option on the table though so either the buyer is serious about THAT boat or a timewaster. Quickest way to find out? Ask him for money. All your other questions are irrelevant if he's out for a joyride - if I fancied an hour on Doug's boat I'd give him a ring and tell him its just what I'm looking for answer all those questions (because I'm not stupid enough to say I want a blue 7.5m cabin diesel but would like to test your orange 6m petrol). I might even be kidding myself on that I might by Doug's boat but I'll still answer the questions right.

Originally Posted by Clamchowder

Best of luck with the sale.

If you were really serious about the sale you'd be happy to have the discussion about this with Doug, probably in private!

Your main doubt seems to be on Engine size. You can assume if the engine size is relatively low for the range it will be less "adventurous" a ride. Doug would presumably be able to provide top speed etc - which you could verify on a sea trial (failing to meet it would presumably be reasonable grounds for refunding the deposit - which is better than simply paying for "the cost of the trip").

Doug has always stuck me as a fairly sensible business man too - so if you said to him, you were thinking of buying a 6m boat but not necessarily his, and were prepared to pay for an hour of his instructors time and fuel etc to gain some specific experience of this option I am sure he would quote you a price.

[Ovey]

I think there's a lost sale in there somewhere!

To be fair I think it's reasonable for a broker to ask for a deposit prior to a sea trial but offering a full return if any aspect (including "I don't like it") is not to the buyers expectations.

To a certain degree this would put off the tyre kickers thus narrowing it down to realistic prospective buyers, however there should still be scope to allow test drives within this - not all ribs behave the same and not all buyers know how all ribs behave. It's not the same as a car dealership but i wouldn't expect to buy a car without a test drive, but they don't have to crane the car onto the road from a stack every test drive.

Maybe an upfront payment (short of a deposit) is given that is refunded by the seller if the sale goes through would be a compromise?


Sent from my iPhone using RIB Net

[Dan Gurney]

Originally Posted by Poly

If you were really serious about the sale you'd be happy to have the discussion about this with Doug, probably in private!

I was really serious, and I may be again. I had a weekend available which is now no longer available, cos I'm going to go and play with the boat I've got. When I get back from Ireland mid-August, if it's still for sale then maybe we'll talk "privately".

I suspect though that he probably won't want to talk to me after all this, but I'm really not specifically having a go at Doug here, more at the principle of buying a boat you have no experience of which seems odd to me as a novice boat buyer. Having said that: last time I bought a car there were a lot of salesman who thought that because they'd let me drive them round the block, and I really do mean round the block, not really what I'd call a test drive, that I owed them a sale. So maybe it's me who is out of step.

Given how much time Ribnetters spend waxing lyrical about how important boat setup is, raising the engine a notch, having it set off center, moving the console around, you'd would have thought it would be essential to try it. Rather than just go "well it's an XS innit. They're all he same."

[paintman]

If there were less dreamers, time wasters & tyre kickers then it would make life a lot easier & much less stressful for the seller.
Taking a boat that isn't kept on a mooring for a sea trial is a lot more involved than taking a car for a spin round the block.
A deposit gives more of an indication that you are serious.
I'm sure sales are lost as a result, but that happens with the same type of idiot when you're selling your car the worst being the no-shows.
Puts me in mind of my brother who owned an immaculate Sunbeam Tiger - when he bought it the Club breathed a sigh of relief as he had no interest in showing it so it gave others a chance of winning the concours trophy. When he sold it he had the world, his wife & dog wanting to take it for a drive. A high deposit got rid of the dreamers & he soon worked out the genuine from the rest. Eventually sold to someone who had done his research, knew exactly what he was looking at & actually declined a test drive. Didn't even haggle the price.(That said, he arrived complete with overalls, car ramps, inspection lamp & spent a lot of time under it).

[Pikey Dave]

When it comes to buying & selling, nobody will ever be happy. The vendor will always think that he's let it go too cheaply & the buyer will think he's had his leg lifted. That's just human nature, sometimes you gotta kiss a few frogs

[Festinghouse]

simple, just charge £100 for a sea trial refundable against the sale. that covers costs for seller, and any serious buyer would know that £100 is nothing in the grand scheme of boat ownership. also if the buyer doesnt like the boat they should be happy at spending that money as it has prevented them from buying a boat they dont want. losing a deposit leaves a bitter taste with anyone, but this is a cost, so viewed a little differently.

[rocknrolla]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

But that's exactly to sort of sea trial this thread isn't about. Some people seem to think that anyone with a boat for sale should give them a go in it.

No disrespect Looey but no pay no play,if they are keen they will give you $ before they even get buy the water, same as a car or moterbike u dnt let them play before they pay, what abt if they smash or damage anything,its like straight off a 125 onto a r1 or 1098 duke its going to end in tears

[Dan Gurney]

Dunno where JK's post is, but I never said for a second that I wouldn't pay a deposit + costs for a demo! I said I wouldn't commit to buy without a demo/sea trial!

Oh and bikes are different again. I never let any one ride a bike off without the full cash in my hand. I ain't riding pillion with anyone, and I ain't letting some stranger ride off on my bike.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by Clamchowder

I was really serious, and I may be again. I had a weekend available which is now no longer available, cos I'm going to go and play with the boat I've got. When I get back from Ireland mid-August, if it's still for sale then maybe we'll talk "privately".

I suspect though that he probably won't want to talk to me after all this, but I'm really not specifically having a go at Doug here, more at the principle of buying a boat you have no experience of which seems odd to me as a novice boat buyer. Having said that: last time I bought a car there were a lot of salesman who thought that because they'd let me drive them round the block, and I really do mean round the block, not really what I'd call a test drive, that I owed them a sale. So maybe it's me who is out of step.

Given how much time Ribnetters spend waxing lyrical about how important boat setup is, raising the engine a notch, having it set off center, moving the console around, you'd would have thought it would be essential to try it. Rather than just go "well it's an XS innit. They're all he same."

If you think the boat might be for you, fire me over your thoughts/questions about engine size and anything else by email and i will tell you what I can. If it still sounds suitable then let me know when you want to come down and we will find some middle ground. If you tell me what's wrong with your current boat I will do my best to tell you if i think this boat will solve that problem.

[Ovey]

That sounds like a fair offer and compromise? Hopefully it'll work for you both, and the boat turns out to be the ideal one for you!

Good luck!