Seams and tube materials

BlackMarlin · 22 August 2019, 09:16

Hi guys,

sorry for newbie questions but I'm a little bit confused from all that reading on forum.

I've read somewhere that welded seams are better than glued.
I also know that hypalon is longer lasting and should be tougher than PVC.

But hypalon can be only glued, right?
So what is the purpose of longer lasting tube if your seams don't last as long as tubes. Or do they?

So, if you cover your boat, keep it on trailer 11 months of the year, but use it all year round 2-3 times per week, is glued hypalon better and longer lasting than good PVC that is welded?
What would be average life cycle of each before first problems start to occur in those conditions?

Budgie1 · 22 August 2019, 13:28

My understanding is that PU (which is harder wearing and more resilient to UV than Hypalon but more difficult to manufacture/repair) has welded seams, Hypalon and PVC is glued?

jeffstevens763@g · 22 August 2019, 15:17

my PVC is welded i know of a 12 year old boat same make as mine looks like new, PVC is getting better same as any if you look after it should last. PU lasts well too but no experience of owning a boat with it myself

Pikey Dave · 22 August 2019, 17:00

In order of personal preference:-

Glued Hypalon
Welded PVC
Wouldn’t touch glued PVC

That said, I’m about to purchase a SIB that will most likely be welded PVC, but I know its limitations & the care required to prolong its life. Given the choice I’d go for good quality glued Hypalon every time.

Locozodiac · 22 August 2019, 18:38

Some issues :

Hypalon lasts at least 3 times than PC fabrics if exposed to permanent UV radiation as in the tropics where the sun punishment is way more than in other countries, is an expensive material, can cosat as much as 2.5 times more than high quality PVC fabrics, a sharp knife will cut it as cutting cheese same as PVC or PU. Not ideal for Rambo's use.

Welded tubes are manufactured placing a glue tape in the middle of the future seam and then rolling both sides under a heat roller which bonds both sides instantly, it's a faster, cheaper method than when gluing tubes by bare hand. This is an indirect welding method not a direct one in which no bonding material is used.

The duration of any glued seam will depend entirely on the quality of the glue and hardened used and the controlled temp and moisture of the room the tubes were asembled at.

If wanting to prolongue the lifespan of any tube, just inflate tubes to their recomended factory working pressure when the boat is in use, buy a good quality thick boat cover if boat will be kept exposed to the open elements and apply UV protectors from time to time.

Happy Boating

jeffstevens763@g · 22 August 2019, 19:30

Info if you look at the dosh side of it more or less equal on a SIB IMO

PVC vs CSM

Locozodiac · 22 August 2019, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

Info if you look at the dosh side of it more or less equal on a SIB IMO

PVC vs CSM

Same applies for manufacturing a Sib, Rib or any other water toy. Did you know that all these fabrics are used in many other applications than just inflatable boats.

Let OP choose whichever material fits his budget, would recommend to buy the one with thicker PU, PVC or Hypalon fabric than standard 0.9 mm fabrics. Thicker Hypalon Orca fabrics than 0.8/0.9 mm ones will skyrocket any budget badly.

Happy Boating

BlackMarlin · 23 August 2019, 09:05

If I go with PVC, what fabrics brands are considered as great and what thickness do you recommend above 0.9mm?

If I go with RIB and hypalon, I'll go with orca 828 since boat I'm looking at comes standard with it. It is Croatian made Barracuda 470, starting price is 10k euros for new. With Suzuki DF60 and some optional stuff it will be 19-20k.
I like the look of Brig ribs, but they are expensive and you guys have mixed reviews about them here.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 August 2019, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locozodiac

Same applies for manufacturing a Sib, Rib or any other water toy. Did you know that all these fabrics are used in many other applications than just inflatable boats.

Let OP choose whichever material fits his budget, would recommend to buy the one with thicker PU, PVC or Hypalon fabric than standard 0.9 mm fabrics. Thicker Hypalon Orca fabrics than 0.8/0.9 mm ones will skyrocket any budget badly.

Happy Boating

as always you dont read the full story on a previous thread he was enquiring about PVC boats quicksilver HD etc. now a comparison between materials as i posted the link, hypalon does wear the best but in my boats case it was nearly double the cost so i elected to buy PVC with the same guarantee period 5 years of some hypalons so 2 x PVC for 1 x hypalon boat. yes its his choice but he asked for opinions

jeffstevens763@g · 23 August 2019, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackMarlin

If I go with PVC, what fabrics brands are considered as great and what thickness do you recommend above 0.9mm?

If I go with RIB and hypalon, I'll go with orca 828 since boat I'm looking at comes standard with it. It is Croatian made Barracuda 470, starting price is 10k euros for new. With Suzuki DF60 and some optional stuff it will be 19-20k.
I like the look of Brig ribs, but they are expensive and you guys have mixed reviews about them here.

IMO if you go PVC the thicker the better thats my experience.
as the link states there's pros and cons storage, use, climate have deciding factors only you can decide what fits your circumstances and budget

Pikey Dave · 23 August 2019, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

IMO if you go PVC the thicker the better thats my experience.

as the link states there's pros and cons storage, use, climate have deciding factors only you can decide what fits your circumstances and budget

[emoji106] whichever you go for, don’t skimp on the 303.

Jojosrib · 23 August 2019, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackMarlin

If I go with PVC, what fabrics brands are considered as great and what thickness do you recommend above 0.9mm?

If I go with RIB and hypalon, I'll go with orca 828 since boat I'm looking at comes standard with it. It is Croatian made Barracuda 470, starting price is 10k euros for new. With Suzuki DF60 and some optional stuff it will be 19-20k.
I like the look of Brig ribs, but they are expensive and you guys have mixed reviews about them here.

Very happy with my Brig. It’s had a tough year with no issues.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 August 2019, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

[emoji106] whichever you go for, don’t skimp on the 303.

yep good point Dave also i cover mine all the time [stored outside pumped up] did the same with my rib [ hypalon]

Solgear · 23 August 2019, 17:36

I seen several PVC seams leak. I wouldn't say they are "better."

cgoing · 23 August 2019, 17:45

I know this may come as a shock to some people but Hypalon is actually no longer made. Almost Everything out there today is a generic version and at least here in the states we see many grades of it and quite frankly some of it is crap. Many get to easily sold into a cheap Hypalon product that in reality is no better than low grade PVC.
That being said a good "Hypalon" such as Orca 828 should last longer than most PVC materials if properly maintained. That is the biggest killer I see is lack of maintenance for any inflatable.

Solgear · 23 August 2019, 17:49

Achilles makes lots of boats out of hypalon and they are incredible. I'm in the process of designing boats for Hyside which will be made from 2520 Hypalon. So any comment that says there are no boats made of hypalon is indeed, SHOCKING!

Locozodiac · 23 August 2019, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

as always you dont read the full story on a previous thread he was enquiring about PVC boats quicksilver HD etc. now a comparison between materials as i posted the link, hypalon does wear the best but in my boats case it was nearly double the cost so i elected to buy PVC with the same guarantee period 5 years of some hypalons so 2 x PVC for 1 x hypalon boat. yes its his choice but he asked for opinions

Hey mate, why don't you mind your own business, so my personal opinion doesn't count ? are you some kind of forum moderator, it is that you always like having the last word, time to cut it out....

Happy Boating

jeffstevens763@g · 23 August 2019, 20:36

Locozodiac you implied in post 7 I should let the Op choose whichever material suits his budget, after I mearly posted a comparison link with the added info it's not a DuPont material anymore and called CSM now to me that's not an opinion just fact and from someone else, but I do state IMO and when I bought my boat the hypalon or CSM vs PVC for a SIB if looked after works out roughly equal as a two to one boat purchase, he doesn't have to take that on board it's up to him. Now he's talking ribs IMO again with the amount of investment in a rib that he's looking at maybe hypalon/CSM is the way to go especially if this is to be kept for a considerable length of time.
This is a forum everyone sees and does things differently what's one persons opinion, way of doing things and work for them doesn't make it the only way.

Happy boating

Highland Haggis · 23 August 2019, 20:39

Hi locozodiac that's my mate you talking to everyone is allowed there opinion sometimes you agree some you don't but don't come on hear shouting your mouth off. Happy boating [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]

BlackMarlin · 23 August 2019, 21:14

Omg guys, no need to argue

We are all here with a common goal, to talk about boating stuff, share some info, learn some other info.
I'm a beginner and everything you guys write here is helpfull. I like to know both sides of a coin and forum is great for that because many people can share many different experiences