Should I or Shouldnt I??

[Gungemyster]

I have the option to take on an old Rhib.

The trouble is I dont know how much it would cost to get it sea worthy again.

I cant find any holes or even patches but she does deflate through the pressure release valves (is this an easy fix?), also I noticed the tube is coming away from the fibreglass hull on one side (is this an easy fix or costly)? Appart from that the Rhib does scrub up too badly.

Then we come to the Mercury 20hp engine (blue writing on the side, mid 80's possibly?)

At some stage it had steering and throttle to a centre console, the console is still there but the cables have snapped or siezed. The engine itself looks to have a gear issue as you cant seem to select reverse (without it running as I havent got that far yet).
I notice the fuel line attachment is damaged which is an easy enough fix and the pull start does move and turn the egine over.

Basically, should I run or take this bad boy on? Anyone who could recomend me a person to speak to about it or give me some idea of the costs involved would be greatly apprecaited as I am a total beginner.

All I want the boat for is to trundle up esturies with my two boys (4 and 6) and get a little fishing in.

I know it is always difficult to put a cost to someting you havent seen but rought ideas would be great.

Thanks

Gungemyster

[Xk59D]

hi there,

as a relative newbie myself to ribs you done the right thing coming here. i got some great reponses on my questions only a few weeks ago.

if it's a mercury blueband engine, i had one of these many years ago and it was a good little engine but not worth a whole lot these days.

i'll let the experts answer your rib questions but from the little you know/have said i'd give this a wide berth (no pun) and seek an alternative.

cheers

[Xk59D]

p.s it maybe beneficial to know a rough budget for people to recommend something to you?

cheers

[Nos4r2]

It'd help to know what boat it is, or if you don't know that, a few pics would help.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Gungemyster

I have the option to take on an old Rhib.

The trouble is I dont know how much it would cost to get it sea worthy again.

I cant find any holes or even patches but she does deflate through the pressure release valves (is this an easy fix?),

are you sure its the valves not the thing becoming porous? If its the inflation valves this is a relatively easy fix (search here and you'll find threads on valve replacement - depending on the design you may need to get the knife and glue out which I imagine will be intimidating for a beginner at tube repair). Indeed its possible that its just crap in the valve seals and a careful clean will fix it. I've never heard anyone complain of leaking over-pressure release valves. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though. If it is fitted with them and its over a period of a few days it goes soft, or certainly overnight, then it may just be them working as the tube heats up and the contents expand.

How long does it hold air for?
Can you pump it up and wash it down with soapy water (washing up liquid) to look for leaks at the seams, tiny pinholes or the whole thing going porous.
If you can pump it up does each chamber inflate separately or have any of the internal baffles gone?

Do you know if it is Hypalon / Polyurethane (PU) / PVC ? The lifetime of the tubes varies with material, as does the specifics of the repair.

The cost of repairing probably depends on a whole load of variables, but to throw a number out there I'd have thought you could DIY a repair to a single valve for £50 ish. If its got 5 chambers it would cost less to do all 5, but not a whole lot less. RIBShop, Paul Tilley, Henshaws (all members here) etc would be able to quote for repairing as well as refurbishing the tubes if thats what was needed, if they had pictures and details. I doubt from the way you are talking that you'd want the expense of replacing the tubes completely.

also I noticed the tube is coming away from the fibreglass hull on one side (is this an easy fix or costly)?

Should be a relatively straightforward fix if the material/fabric is still intact. Its all about the preparation and using the right glue. Glue, solvents etc would cost less than £50 and you'd possibly need these anyway for valve repairs or any future patching.

Then we come to the Mercury 20hp engine (blue writing on the side, mid 80's possibly?)

At some stage it had steering and throttle to a centre console, the console is still there but the cables have snapped or siezed.

replacement throttle and gear cables will be somewhere in the 15-30 each range depending on length and quality. Vert straightforward to fit. Steering cable is a bit more expensive - and may be trickier to get the old one off depending how rusted it is (I'm assuming we are talking "teleflex" here not actual cable steering. If its thin wire cables you'll need to talk to someone like 9d280 who has an unhealthy interest in vintage outboards!

The engine itself looks to have a gear issue as you cant seem to select reverse (without it running as I havent got that far yet).
I notice the fuel line attachment is damaged which is an easy enough fix and the pull start does move and turn the egine over.

i'd want to see the engine running. Assume its going to need a service and impellor change as a minimum (if you DIY it the parts will be about 30 quid - if you pay someone it will probably be the wrong side of £100). The gear could be as simple as a badly ajusted linkage or it might mean its about to need a new gearbox. Is the gearbox oil clean or milky? I'm guessing this engine hasn't seen much tlc recently. This could be a problem, even if there is nothing serious wrong with it, you need to get the bottom half off to replace the impellor (should be done every 1-2 years in theory). The mechanical people here would also suggest you want a compression test on the engine - this should tell you if its about to get very expensive.

All I want the boat for is to trundle up esturies with my two boys (4 and 6) and get a little fishing in.

a controvertial suggestion round here - but a RIB may not be the most appropriate boat for that?

One other thought with one adult + a 4yr old + 6 yr old; I'd really want seats for all: does this provide that? Perched on top of a tube is not a good place for little uns.

Anyone suggesting a cost to fix will be guessing. It could be as little as £20 to fix the tubes (if turns out that the valves are fine, or at least holding air long enough not to bother) but if its got lots to fix and you want a pro to do it then it could run to several hundred. New tubes would cost atleast a few thousand (assuming its small as it has a 20hp engine).

The engine end of things I'd expect a minimum of £200 to get it all connected back up and ready to run again. But potentially much more, I'm guessing if the gearbox is nackered you are lookign at finding a spare bottom half at a breakers. Worst case you might be able to replace the whole engine with something of similar vintage (and hence risk) for around £500 ish?

If its on a trailer I'd assume the wheel bearings need replaced as a minimum (assuming you DIY that will be something like £40-50 for the pair). Obviously tyres, etc may need replacing too if they are in a similar state to the boat.

Now you'll also want life jackets (x3 at least) so thats probably well over £100.
Most people here would strongly suggest and anchor and rope (£50 ish), a handheld vhf (£80 ish), and possibly a GPS (£100+), as basic equipment. When you add in ropes to tie it up with, spare spark plugs, a few tools, a paddle, and all the other bits n pieces then I think you are lookign at another £100. And we've not even covered nice-to-have like a fishfinder (£100)

All in if someone is giving you the boat FOC then you will still need a budget of £500 to get you started IF you are very lucky. If it needs a lot of work and you're not that confident it could be a £1500+ project.

[Gungemyster]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It'd help to know what boat it is, or if you don't know that, a few pics would help.

The boat is a Narwarth or Narwal (does this sound right?

[Gungemyster]

Originally Posted by Polwart

are you sure its the valves not the thing becoming porous? If its the inflation valves this is a relatively easy fix (search here and you'll find threads on valve replacement - depending on the design you may need to get the knife and glue out which I imagine will be intimidating for a beginner at tube repair). Indeed its possible that its just crap in the valve seals and a careful clean will fix it. I've never heard anyone complain of leaking over-pressure release valves. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though. If it is fitted with them and its over a period of a few days it goes soft, or certainly overnight, then it may just be them working as the tube heats up and the contents expand.

How long does it hold air for?
Can you pump it up and wash it down with soapy water (washing up liquid) to look for leaks at the seams, tiny pinholes or the whole thing going porous.
If you can pump it up does each chamber inflate separately or have any of the internal baffles gone?

Do you know if it is Hypalon / Polyurethane (PU) / PVC ? The lifetime of the tubes varies with material, as does the specifics of the repair.

The cost of repairing probably depends on a whole load of variables, but to throw a number out there I'd have thought you could DIY a repair to a single valve for £50 ish. If its got 5 chambers it would cost less to do all 5, but not a whole lot less. RIBShop, Paul Tilley, Henshaws (all members here) etc would be able to quote for repairing as well as refurbishing the tubes if thats what was needed, if they had pictures and details. I doubt from the way you are talking that you'd want the expense of replacing the tubes completely.


Should be a relatively straightforward fix if the material/fabric is still intact. Its all about the preparation and using the right glue. Glue, solvents etc would cost less than £50 and you'd possibly need these anyway for valve repairs or any future patching.

replacement throttle and gear cables will be somewhere in the 15-30 each range depending on length and quality. Vert straightforward to fit. Steering cable is a bit more expensive - and may be trickier to get the old one off depending how rusted it is (I'm assuming we are talking "teleflex" here not actual cable steering. If its thin wire cables you'll need to talk to someone like 9d280 who has an unhealthy interest in vintage outboards!
i'd want to see the engine running. Assume its going to need a service and impellor change as a minimum (if you DIY it the parts will be about 30 quid - if you pay someone it will probably be the wrong side of £100). The gear could be as simple as a badly ajusted linkage or it might mean its about to need a new gearbox. Is the gearbox oil clean or milky? I'm guessing this engine hasn't seen much tlc recently. This could be a problem, even if there is nothing serious wrong with it, you need to get the bottom half off to replace the impellor (should be done every 1-2 years in theory). The mechanical people here would also suggest you want a compression test on the engine - this should tell you if its about to get very expensive.

a controvertial suggestion round here - but a RIB may not be the most appropriate boat for that?

One other thought with one adult + a 4yr old + 6 yr old; I'd really want seats for all: does this provide that? Perched on top of a tube is not a good place for little uns.

Anyone suggesting a cost to fix will be guessing. It could be as little as £20 to fix the tubes (if turns out that the valves are fine, or at least holding air long enough not to bother) but if its got lots to fix and you want a pro to do it then it could run to several hundred. New tubes would cost atleast a few thousand (assuming its small as it has a 20hp engine).

The engine end of things I'd expect a minimum of £200 to get it all connected back up and ready to run again. But potentially much more, I'm guessing if the gearbox is nackered you are lookign at finding a spare bottom half at a breakers. Worst case you might be able to replace the whole engine with something of similar vintage (and hence risk) for around £500 ish?

If its on a trailer I'd assume the wheel bearings need replaced as a minimum (assuming you DIY that will be something like £40-50 for the pair). Obviously tyres, etc may need replacing too if they are in a similar state to the boat.

Now you'll also want life jackets (x3 at least) so thats probably well over £100.
Most people here would strongly suggest and anchor and rope (£50 ish), a handheld vhf (£80 ish), and possibly a GPS (£100+), as basic equipment. When you add in ropes to tie it up with, spare spark plugs, a few tools, a paddle, and all the other bits n pieces then I think you are lookign at another £100. And we've not even covered nice-to-have like a fishfinder (£100)

All in if someone is giving you the boat FOC then you will still need a budget of £500 to get you started IF you are very lucky. If it needs a lot of work and you're not that confident it could be a £1500+ project.

Wow, thats awesome advice, I will try out a few things tonight and let you know.

The rib is a Narwal or something like that. I think the internal baffels have gone. The pressure release value does his away and it took two days to go down. Its a big white value held in with loads of philips head screws. It you stick you finger in it you can feel the presure build behind it.

I will let you know how I get on.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Gungemyster

The boat is a Narwarth or Narwal (does this sound right?

Yes - so something like these:

http://inflatables.apolloduck.com/di...tml?aid=150255
http://inflatables.apolloduck.com/di...tml?aid=145004
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/PAA6526

But with a smaller engine.

Looking at those ads the boat you were looking at would need to VERY cheap to consider it - when "ready to use" boats (with bigger engines) are costing only slightly more than your worst case repair costs.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Gungemyster

The rib is a Narwal or something like that. I think the internal baffels have gone. The pressure release value does his away and it took two days to go down. Its a big white value held in with loads of philips head screws. It you stick you finger in it you can feel the presure build behind it.

That sounds more like the inflation valves (which you can use to deflate the boat by poking something in it) than "pressure release valves" which are designed to "blow off" if you try to over-inflate / hit something hard / leave it in the sun etc.

Internal baffles are not 100% essential - but they are certainly desirable. If you get a puncture anywhere the whole tube will deflate if the baffles are shot. If the baffles are intact you only lose the 1 chamber. You want to at least get a clamshell puncture kit then - to do emergency repairs at sea. Its unlikely to be economical to get the baffles fixed, and its not really a DIY job for beginners.

Here is the manufacturer's website: http://www.narwhal.es/narwhal.php?page=--inicio&ln=EN

[Gungemyster]

Thank you so much for your help.

The tubes are Hypertext.

I think you are right, its too much for a begineer, especially when the guys hasnt given me a price yet. I know he paid £800 at auction and as it is, I would not want to give much more than £100 with the work that needs to be done.
I think it is save up a few more pennies and get one running and ready to go. There isnt even a winch on the trailer and it doesnt sit well on the trailer.
I will post up some pics shortly.

[Gungemyster]

Rib pics

Here are the pics of the Rib, so in your opinions whats it worth in its current condition??



Area the tube has come unstuck at the front lefthand side.



protection come unstuck on the front



console



steering undernieth









The leaking valve

[ribraff]

It's gonna be a tough job to repair that... the fabric tends to go brittle on these when they're older which doesn't help.
The understrip will need to be peeled back from the bow and the chances are you'll find more sections which aren't stuck too.

[Gungemyster]

Ok, I think enough said. I think it might be time to send it bad with its tail between its legs.

Thanks for all the help and advice on this one. I will save the pennies and see what I can find out there.

If he doesnt want it back I might turn it into a sand pit for the kids!! lol.

[Gungemyster]

I have taken out the automatic relief value tonight and found the rubber seal has been damaged by the last person putting it back in. I have no idea how I am going to get it back in!! lol
I was also expecting to find kind of inner tubes attached to the air valves inside but is it litterally an internal wall in between each chamber?
I have also found expandable foam inside the tubes (Im guessing this isnt normal)

I know I know, I said I was going to hand it back to the guy but I just could halp myself and had to have a look!!

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Polwart

talk to someone like 9d280 who has an unhealthy interest in vintage outboards!

It's not that unhealthy - none of them have killed me....yet!


The reverse problem may be down to the design of those gearboxes - namely they default to forward gear unless the cable / lever tells them to do something else. There are (certainly not on the 50/ 60Hp versions, which I believe are basically similar design) no latches or stuff in the gearbox. As a quick visual, that cable looks OK, but does it move when you turn the wheel? I canlt see form the pics if there;s a remotes box on the port side of the console, but assuming you donlt have one, you donlt need to spend loads on a fancy Quicksilver one. A "simple mechanical" one (al lthe aftermarket bods do them, and the Branded ones are also very cross compatible) E.g yam do a "budget" remote with throttle / gear & deadman, desifned for pull start engines where you don't need the electrical interlocking, keys etc.


I guess the project cost can be looked at two ways - if it holds air for 2 days, that's a day longer than my front bit of toob held air for when I first got mine. A year later I got round to finding the hole. Just meant leaving it on a mooring for >20hrs became a flood risk, and I always carried a pump. The peeling hull / toob joint is a glue job, BUT as has been said it's what else you might find.

Yes it's nice to have a GPS etc etc, but it's also fun to cruise / fish in company.

I would definetly second the lifejackets tho', whatever boat you choose / use

[Gungemyster]

Originally Posted by 9D280

It's not that unhealthy - none of them have killed me....yet!


The reverse problem may be down to the design of those gearboxes - namely they default to forward gear unless the cable / lever tells them to do something else. There are (certainly not on the 50/ 60Hp versions, which I believe are basically similar design) no latches or stuff in the gearbox. As a quick visual, that cable looks OK, but does it move when you turn the wheel? I canlt see form the pics if there;s a remotes box on the port side of the console, but assuming you donlt have one, you donlt need to spend loads on a fancy Quicksilver one. A "simple mechanical" one (al lthe aftermarket bods do them, and the Branded ones are also very cross compatible) E.g yam do a "budget" remote with throttle / gear & deadman, desifned for pull start engines where you don't need the electrical interlocking, keys etc.


I guess the project cost can be looked at two ways - if it holds air for 2 days, that's a day longer than my front bit of toob held air for when I first got mine. A year later I got round to finding the hole. Just meant leaving it on a mooring for >20hrs became a flood risk, and I always carried a pump. The peeling hull / toob joint is a glue job, BUT as has been said it's what else you might find.

Yes it's nice to have a GPS etc etc, but it's also fun to cruise / fish in company.

I would definetly second the lifejackets tho', whatever boat you choose / use

Thanks, Once I get the f£%&ing release valve back in!! I will test it again, but basically in the auto releave valve, the rubber seal has been pinched and torn so a new one of these required. If I can get it back on then I will bung this up for now and pump up again, check the valves for air leaks and see how long it stays up.
If the internal chambers have gone mking it one big tube, does this not concern anyone as surely, one punchture and Im sinking!! lol glug glug glug!!

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Gungemyster

If the internal chambers have gone mking it one big tube, does this not concern anyone as surely, one punchture and Im sinking!! lol glug glug glug!!

That's the good thing about RIBs - No!

I forget where I read it, but I think Avon (anyone out there can corrrect me?) once said that as long as one section of toob was inflated, it could stay afloat with engine & crew clinging to what was left. Also if you only loose a section of your toob in theory you can lash it up & carry on (at slower speed). But that's all down to risk management.

You could still test the internal baffles with one valve missing!

[RIBRyda]

Originally Posted by 9D280

That's the good thing about RIBs - No!

I forget where I read it, but I think Avon (anyone out there can corrrect me?) once said that as long as one section of toob was inflated, it could stay afloat with engine & crew clinging to what was left. Also if you only loose a section of your toob in theory you can lash it up & carry on (at slower speed). But that's all down to risk management.

You could still test the internal baffles with one valve missing!

This is absolutely true - MOST (if not all!) RIBs will float quite happily with no tubes inflated at all; in fact we have pictures of one of our old Aquaflytes undergoing tests for stability with no tubes even fitted - still couldn't sink it! There are stories (maybe right, maybe not) of RIBs making it back to the mainland from the Channel Islands with partially or totally deflated tubes. The rules for construction mean that there are huge amounts of "spare" buoyancy within the hulls - and also bear in mind that there are a lot of RIB designs out there where the tubes don't even touch the water when at rest - not even kissing the water at the transom.....

[ribraff]

http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?...magellan+alpha

[Gungemyster]

This is all very helpful indeed.

I stupidly took the automatic release valve appart to see why it was leaking air (what a bad move this was!!) lol
Basicallt the rubber seal in it has been pinched at somestage and needs a new one. I have bodged it back together for now so that I can pump it up now that I have cleaed and tightened all the valves to see how long it stays up for.

Pumped it up last night, today the nose has lost a little but the main tubes feel ok at present.