Should there be an alcohol limit for leisure boaters?

[Tims Osprey]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

If I took a gun, and fired randomly into a crowd, but failed to hit anyone, would that mean it's ok, and stopping people firing guns into crowds was an unnesasary piece of ridiculous legislation coz it 'quite clearly isn't dangerous, as I tried & got away with it'....no.

Best thing is, you carry on just as you please.

I'm 'staggered' that an rya trainer thinks it's ok to drink drive a boat.

Not that i am particularly bothered cuz this post means naf to me but here yu are anyway

I like the bit about carrying on as yu pleaze though, wise words Doug.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Maybe he can't find it cos it's not there? A few of our posts seem to have succumbed to the "iron fist" of god..............

It's still here as Tims Osprey found. Isn't the search feature great?

I have deleted some of the less enlightening and more inflammatory posts in this thread as it's getting very long and really doesn't need any padding. I haven't deleted anything that's actually relevant to the discussion though.

John

[Mugshot]

Originally Posted by Tims Osprey

I have to be honest though something that does concern me a bit sometimes is people being in control of 30ft+ class cruisers that have little or no experience with no qualifications, sometimes it can be difficult to spot small craft from the bridge?

So there should be legislation in place to protect yourself and others once you go beyond a certain limit? I couldn't have said it better myself, welcome to the pro side Tim!!
You might want to ask John if you can change your vote.

Thank you for finding the quote too, I'd forgotten about that one.

[Tims Osprey]

Originally Posted by Mugshot

So there should be legislation in place to protect yourself and others once you go beyond a certain limit? I couldn't have said it better myself, welcome to the pro side Tim!!
You might want to ask John if you can change your vote.

Thank you for finding the quote too, I'd forgotten about that one.

yer no worries, my argument has never been against protecting the people, its been about the freedom of the peopleand choice which i feel is important, i don't want to rant on about my political views so i will leave it there on that one.

[Doug Stormforce]

Mr Wave

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I believe the reason why we have Health and safety Regulation is as a direct result of the recomendations of the Cullen Report into the Piper Alpha Tragedy.

Not true, Health and Safety legislation has been around since 1977, Piper Alpha was 1988

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

This was probably before your time but an Oil platform caught fire, and because production was more important than safety.

Patronising, I remember the incident well. However its not got much to do with legislation for leisure boating

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

The overall manager of the field refused to shut down the flow of oil from two other platforms to the burning one. He waited to get the OK from his boss on the beach

Not entirely true, it was one other platform called Tartan

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I for one am glad that we have a Health and Safety legislation if it means I don't get toasted at work.

I also respect the concept of H&S, if you read my post you will see Im against "crazy Health and Safety" . Let me give you an example, the pool we use for Sea Survival last year told me that the new Health and Safety Officer
had decided we could not use the hose during amandonment sessions in case we got the pool side wet.

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Get back to drinking . which I like by the way, I presume you respect the RYA's laws about instructors not drinking during the course,

It not the RYA that make the laws, this is part of an act passed by government to stop commercial mariners drinking. But yes I dont drink during a powerboat course. Mostly because it would set a pretty bad example to our students

Im not going to reply to your comments about speeding - its a bit off topic and I dont want to get started on stealth taxing, sorry I mean speed cameras

I think we do have some common ground here, I am not advocationg drinking and powerboating as being a good mix however I don't think we need legislation to fix something that is not broken.

[Tims Osprey]

Doug i would come to your school any day should i wish tu further my boating skills your posts are about the most informed and level headed among us and i think i may start using your carry on as yu please approach to debates cod yur a well informed conscious character tu, welcome tu the revaluation

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I have deleted some of the less enlightening and more inflammatory posts in this thread as it's getting very long and really doesn't need any padding. I haven't deleted anything that's actually relevant to the discussion though.

Oh, and I reserve the right to keep on deleting any off topic posts in this thread.

If it's relevant it stays. If not, it takes me less time to delete it than it does for you to type it !

John

[MarkWildey]

John

Replying to your own posts, that's a bad sign.

Mark

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Mr Wave

Not true, Health and Safety legislation has been around since 1977, Piper Alpha was 1988

No need to be formal Douggie you can call me Stuart

Would that be the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Mr Wave

Patronising, I remember the incident well. However its not got much to do with legislation for leisure boating

Not entirely true, it was one other platform called Tartan

Not entirely that well it would seem, two platforms Tartan and Claymore declined to shut down until it was too late. regarding the relevance I dunno you brought the HSE into the debate!

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

I also respect the concept of H&S, if you read my post you will see Im against "crazy Health and Safety" . Let me give you an example, the pool we use for Sea Survival last year told me that the new Health and Safety Officer
had decided we could not use the hose during amandonment sessions in case we got the pool side wet.

Glad to hear it, whats the oldest person you've sold, or would sell,
a sea survival course to?

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Im not going to reply to your comments about speeding - its a bit off topic and I dont want to get started on stealth taxing, sorry I mean speed cameras

Hey If you can't do the time don't do the crime. The Speed limit laws have ben around a lot longer that the Gatzo's. If you really object to the speed camera/stealth tax the put the fkkrs out of business .....don't speed!


[QUOTE=Doug Stormforce;214860]
I think we do have some common ground here, I am not advocationg drinking and powerboating as being a good mix however I don't think we need legislation to fix something that is not broken.

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

I think we do have some common ground here, I am not advocationg drinking and powerboating as being a good mix however I don't think we need legislation to fix something that is not broken.

Have We? I think legislation's a good thing cos it would stop me from doing it Until then I'm gonna preach one thing and practice another and I don't that level of hypocracy in myself

[Carl]

what we need is another poll to see how many of the training schools have voted to have legislation,all that extra income if you would then need to take a test for a license

[Doug Stormforce]

Mr Stu

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Would that be the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974

Yes that will be the one - well spotted

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Carl

we need is another poll to see how many of the training schools have voted to have legislation
.....all that extra income if you would then need to take a test for a license

[genoa]

Originally Posted by Mugshot

If you wouldn't drink and drive why do you feel the need to drink and boat? Simple, because you CAN!

Thing is, I dont drink and drive, not because it is illegal, but because it is not sensible - training teaches you that. I am also very aware that drinking and boating at speed is not sensible, so I wouldnt do it. However, the interesting thing here is "at speed." What speed? -my sailboat does much more than 7knts (clocked 19 a couple of years back!)

It is legal to ride a bike on the road with over 80mg/l in your blood which can easily do more than 30 mph in a thirty zone (yes with pedals), however you can be arrested for public order offences if you are a danger to others - is this not a more sensible approach by the authorities in harbours (where they can issue bylaws) to restrict the use of boats that are used in an inappropriate manner?
some harbours round the solent have a bylaw controlling the use of vessels capable of more than 7knts by minors so it must be possible with national legislation.

Once a boat is on open water, I suspect the number of incidents is likely to be very low that affect anyone except those on the boat in question ....

[genoa]

Yeezz, you guys were having some fun while I've been on holiday!!

I think we may well find, with a good trawl through the MCA records that in fact more lives have been lost / injuries sustained by not having a kill cord attached than alcohol in our type of boat.

Certainly more yachtsmen have been drowned falling from their tender (capable of under 7knts) with no lifeljacket (basic safety ignored) than in their yacht, admittedly alcohol induced, but as these craft are likely to be exempt we are not getting much nearer.
Oh, and while we are at it tombstoning has now killed more people than p****d boat drivers this year.

[walruz]

Originally Posted by genoa

Oh, and while we are at it tombstoning has now killed more people than p****d boat drivers this year.

And how many more paralised. We had one here in the last weekend.

Ian

[genoa]

In the first chapter of this fine book, Arthur Ransome wirtes, "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers won't drown"

A modern equivalent would be, "If your actions are irresponsible, you should be removed from planet earth, most likely by your own acts. If you are sensible you and those around you will be ok."

No need for legislation

[Sarah G]

Originally Posted by codprawn

When you look at the statistics it says out of 7,000 drownings booze was a factor in 1,000 of them. of course this means it was NOT a factor in 6,000 - a much higher figure.

The main thing the stats don't show though is what sort of drowning the booze factored in. it doesn't mention boating - I suspect a great many are people jumping into rivers or the sea or swimming whilst drunk which means the number of boating related deaths is tiny.

There was in fact one year in the UK history where more people were drowned in their cars than in boats. Not sure when this was - but I wonder whether they were drivers who were over the limit in Richmond when the tide came in - perhaps alcohol was to blame and they should have driven home instead