Skipping teeth on cable steering - new helm time?

[Poly]

I had a yam 20hp with cable steering (teleflex style). Last year the steering had seized and I had it replaced - boatyard did it because it was seized to the tilt tube which had to be replaced. I think they replaced the helm unit as well as the cable but I am not 100% certain about that. It was still stiffer than when it had been new and the kids struggled to steer it.

I’ve replaced the engine with a 30hp tohatsu. The yard that supplied it fitted it to the existing steering and we’ve been ironing out some niggles over the last few weeks. The steering has still been heavy but with power trim can be lighter than it was before despite engine being much heavier. Long story short, the steering has got worse, and I can feel and hear the teeth skipping on the cable in the helm unit when attached to the engine (feels fine with no load on the cable).

Am I right in thinking that if the cable is skipping I should be replacing both helm and cable?

If I am going that far should I bite the bullet and go hydraulic? Obviously that is more than twice the price but 1. The cable routing is pretty tight which I think is 1/2 the problem - I assume hydraulics are more tolerant of this; 2. Presumably the kids would find it easier; 3. I’m hoping I’d get longer life from hydraulic.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

If I am going that far should I bite the bullet and go hydraulic? .......... Presumably the kids would find it easier........

Get yer purse out.

[jwalker]

A tricky one. A cable working well will be fine. The 'secret' is to keep it well lubricated, with water resistant lubricant if possible though you may need to use oil to get it down the cable, and keep the water out of the cable. Undo the big nut on the through tube frequently and pull the cable outwards to keep it well greased. Be sure to lather plenty of grease into the helm unit too. Don't fill it so full you hydraulic lock it though!

My previous Humber used cable steering, I used double cables because they can be loaded in different senses to eliminate the free play and although the steering was certainly heavier than hydraulic it was not overly heavy. Yours being as heavy as you say on a single cable has to be past its best.

The benefit of a cable is there's no slippage in the steering and no possible hassle with hydraulic fluid and chafing hoses.

Nothing's ever completely straightforward!

[Tim M]

I wouldn't bother with hydraulic on a 30hp. Just replace the helm and cable. Parts will cost you about £150, compared to about £500+ for hydraulic.

[Poly]

JW - yeah the original set up was fine, when I had a bench seat in it and the cable just lay around the deck aimlessly as a trip hazard. Then I upgraded to add jockey seat and routed the cables via a tunnel on the centre line of the boat. The rear of the jockey is <50cm from the transom, and the cable has to rise from deck level to the top of the transom and get out to the starboard side (and curve back in for the steering “rod”).

That said I’ve never greased the inside of the cables - I’m sure someone once told me not to!

I can get a hydraulic unit for 399 delivered so it’s not quite as painful as Tim suggested but Willk recognises by genetics! But routing the cables and fitting them into the back of the original helm unit involve a lot swearing and some loss of skin from knuckles so I am not averse to always that might be easier! Either way I have a bad feeling I am going to have to remove the engine to get the old cable out :-( If I am going to the hassle that either solution involves I’d rather not be doing it again in a year or two...

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Poly

That said I’ve never greased the inside of the cables - I’m sure someone once told me not to!

Aha, that'll be a professional person, then...

If I am going to the hassle that either solution involves I’d rather not be doing it again in a year or two...

Mmm...either way, maybe aye, maybe no...

I think perhaps you've already made your mind up!

[paintman]

I disconnect mine at the engine end & clean inside the tubes with a shotgun brush before regreasing. I turn the helm from one lock to the other to extend the cable ends & clean & smear them with grease - the Quicksilver 2-4-C stuff.

As you say it was free to move before you fitted the jockey seat & altered the cable routing I think you now have excessively tight bends in the cable.

Replaced my helm some years ago due to damage. The helm ends of the cable were steel & the internals of the helm were alloy so no surprise that the internals suffer & any increase in load is just going to make it wear faster.

If you can't alter the cable routing then it may well be the case that you'll have to go hydraulic.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Aha, that'll be a professional person, then...

I have a feeling it might be the person who sold me the replacement cable the first time!

I think perhaps you've already made your mind up!

I guess to some extent I had (and now have as I clicked Buy Now a moment ago!) but was checking in case anyone thought the switch was mental (which Tim did). I just can't convince myself that with like for like replacement I would have an improved solution after spending £150 and probably a day fighting to fit the thing.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Poly

I have a feeling it might be the person who sold me the replacement cable the first time!





I guess to some extent I had (and now have as I clicked Buy Now a moment ago!) but was checking in case anyone thought the switch was mental (which Tim did). I just can't convince myself that with like for like replacement I would have an improved solution after spending £150 and probably a day fighting to fit the thing.

If you apply Dave’s law, the hydraulic steering has cost you £250 [emoji6]

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

If you apply Dave’s law, the hydraulic steering has cost you £250 [emoji6]

I like Dave's law!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Poly

I like Dave's law!

That’s Dave’s first law of boat economics.
Dave’s second law states “as far as the wife knows, everything boat related costs £29.99 from Force4”

[gpsguru]

Originally Posted by Poly

I have a bad feeling I am going to have to remove the engine to get the old cable out :-( If I am going to the hassle that either solution involves I’d rather not be doing it again in a year or two...

If you are concerned about it being 'stuck' in the tube, then a little heat always does the trick ...............

The consol is the more difficult part .......... all consol's were designed to be fitted out by dwarfs with 12" fingers

[Poly]

Originally Posted by gpsguru

If you are concerned about it being 'stuck' in the tube, then a little heat always does the trick ...............

no it won't be stuck in there the engine has only just been refitted. The issue is if there is enough clearance to the starboard side to get a straight pull on it.

The consol is the more difficult part .......... all consol's were designed to be fitted out by dwarfs with 12" fingers

i've lost a lot of skin on the inside edge of the console hatch... I really should remember to sand it smooth before starting.

[Last Tango]

If you're going "Hydraulic" then a fire blanket and an angle grinder will get the old one out without having to lift the engine.

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

If you're going "Hydraulic" then a fire blanket and an angle grinder will get the old one out without having to lift the engine.

[emoji106]. I wouldn’t be dicking about any other way if there isn’t enough room for a straight pull.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

If you're going "Hydraulic" then a fire blanket and an angle grinder will get the old one out without having to lift the engine.

that was at the back of my head as a possibility to consider once I see if the new parts will fit easily with the engine on sounds promising

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Poly

that was at the back of my head as a possibility to consider once I see if the new parts will fit easily with the engine on sounds promising

You're going to grind a whole lot of sparks right next to your petrol fueled engine?!

How long does it take you to spin off four nuts? You'd have em off in less time than it takes to lay out your extension cable, find your big gloves, get yer ear defenders on and get the grinder running. Even then you'd have millions of steel particles embedded into everything cos they're white hot when they land, then they'll rust and turn your boat brown over time.

Leave the engine in situ and just lean it sideways to pull the cable from the through tube - pop the bolts back in but don't tighten them until you've got the new steering in place. You might be underestimating how stiff two hydraulic hoses are to fit into a wee boat.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

You're going to grind a whole lot of sparks right next to your petrol fuelled engine?!

I just renewed the insurance, it could save me a lot of trouble!

How long does it take you to spin off four nuts? You'd have em off in less time than it takes to lay out your extension cable, find your big gloves, get yer ear defenders on and get the grinder running.

Even then you'd have millions of steel particles embedded into everything cos they're white hot when they land, then they'll rust and turn your boat brown over time.

I'm assuming thats why Last Tango said fire blanket - but I've no power at the boat yard, and would need to tow it up the road to that so a hacksaw was probably more likely.

Leave the engine in situ and just lean it sideways to pull the cable from the through tube - pop the bolts back in but don't tighten them until you've got the new steering in place.

without an engine hoist that was my plan - biggest issue is the amount of sikaflex they've put on the engine/bolts - it will probably stay in situ with all 4 bolts off!!!

You might be underestimating how stiff two hydraulic hoses are to fit into a wee boat.

Thats the sort of useful observation that might have helped before Dave's rule 1 was applied!!!

The new engine is mounted a bit higher than the old one so I might be able to get the steering "rod" out without moving the engine anyway...

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Poly

I just renewed the insurance, it could save me a lot of trouble!


I'm assuming thats why Last Tango said fire blanket - but I've no power at the boat yard, and would need to tow it up the road to that so a hacksaw was probably more likely.

without an engine hoist that was my plan - biggest issue is the amount of sikaflex they've put on the engine/bolts - it will probably stay in situ with all 4 bolts off!!!

Thats the sort of useful observation that might have helped before Dave's rule 1 was applied!!!

The new engine is mounted a bit higher than the old one so I might be able to get the steering "rod" out without moving the engine anyway...

If you need to lift the engine, use the block of wood & jockey wheel method, it’s a doddle, I’ve done it with a 140 on my own, a 30 should be a walk in the park.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Poly

Thats the sort of useful observation that might have helped before Dave's rule 1 was applied!!!

Well I didn't like to sound too negative!

The new engine is mounted a bit higher than the old one so I might be able to get the steering "rod" out without moving the engine anyway...

That can be to your advantage because you can get away with removing only three of the bolts and slackening the last top one at the opposite end to the cable removal end then pivot the engine sideways on the last bolt secure in the knowledge that it won't get away from you and fall off. As the engine is angled, you'll get clearance to pull the cable.