Sponsons: Polyurethane v Hypalon

[fastasfox]

Good Evening all. Penny for your thought's please.
I have recently (a year back) purchased a 5m Tornado (the original) and I have started a programme of restoration...full rebuild. I faced the fact that it requires new tubes..Polyurethane sponsons come in at around £4000 at XS Ribs but they can do Hypalon for around the same cost. I have owned several sibs inc Zodiac and Quicksilver and they have been Hypalon but the Tornado with it's original tubes are Polyurethane. I have done lots of research into the two fabrics and watched pretty much every video on YouTube on the subject inc Alfred Montana's...( where he runs both over in a suv) but he often gets Polyurethane mixed up with PVC not the same thing. The common failure thread seems to be the glue that bond's them...my Zodiac Sib started to let go of both the floor and transom and the Tornado that had glued seams has failed at the bow.
So having learned that XS (formally Tornado) now weld the seams together on Polyurethane tubes I'm thinking it's a no brainer and as you can't weld Hypalon it's a done deal......right?
So both Hypalon and Polyurethane are decent fabrics for tubes but it's clear Hypalon is a tougher fabric.
So what's your thoughts (boat will be stored out off the water and will be covered at all times)

Hypalon v Polyurethane..........FIGHT.

[Maximus]

No fight....Just Do it right!...
Hyperlon
....Let the Numptys argue the Toss if they want to

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

Good Evening all. Penny for your thought's please.

I have recently (a year back) purchased a 5m Tornado (the original) and I have started a programme of restoration...full rebuild. I faced the fact that it requires new tubes..Polyurethane sponsons come in at around £4000 at XS Ribs but they can do Hypalon for around the same cost. I have owned several sibs inc Zodiac and Quicksilver and they have been Hypalon but the Tornado with it's original tubes are Polyurethane. I have done lots of research into the two fabrics and watched pretty much every video on YouTube on the subject inc Alfred Montana's...( where he runs both over in a suv) but he often gets Polyurethane mixed up with PVC not the same thing. The common failure thread seems to be the glue that bond's them...my Zodiac Sib started to let go of both the floor and transom and the Tornado that had glued seams has failed at the bow.

So having learned that XS (formally Tornado) now weld the seams together on Polyurethane tubes I'm thinking it's a no brainer and as you can't weld Hypalon it's a done deal......right?

So both Hypalon and Polyurethane are decent fabrics for tubes but it's clear Hypalon is a tougher fabric.

So what's your thoughts (boat will be stored out off the water and will be covered at all times)



Hypalon v Polyurethane..........FIGHT.

Our sailing club had 4 ribs, 3 ribcrafts & 1 xs a few years ago the xs which was 7 years old at the time suffered glue failure at the seams & needed a retube. I contacted xs on behalf of the club & without putting undue pressure on xs they offered to retube the boat for half price which the club had done. They made a cracking job & everyone was happy as the boat was 2 years out of its 5 year warranty. At the same time the 3 ribcrafts all required the tube tops to be overclad as they were threadbare in places. The pu xs on the otherhand was actually very tidy it had held its colour better and had worn far less than the ribcrafts.Apart from the glue failure, which is now a none issue as they are heat seamed the xs had faired better than the ribcrafts. Polyurethane without doubt is the tougher wearing material than hypalon so without the glue issue in theory its a better choice.
However if I was buying tubes I'd go for hypalon simply because of the ease of repair or adding accessories.
Which is best is a bit like saying is a merc better than a bmw or a ford better than a Vauxhall. Its purely a matter of personal preference imho

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app

[Pikey Dave]

And there you have it. 2 answers & it’s a draw. I dare say that if the “fight” continues, the end result would still be the same, but with more collateral damage. Pay your money & make your choice.

[Maximus]

Draw?....I suggest read the posts again Mate....
Even the OP states Hyperlon "is a much tougher material"...the second poster says he'd indeed choose Hyperlon....Himself!..
And YOU! (I always thought a canny Yorkshireman)
Have had TWO High spec ...New custom RIB's BOTH made in Hyperlon....
Does that count??

After spending many hours at the Ribcraft factory and with Chris when he owned Henshaws and doing several re-tubes...I was left in no doubt what the industry thought was the premier material in all its many forms,grades,and finishes....
An opinion certainly born out by my 40 + experience messing about in/with inflatable Boats..... but Hey it's his money

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Draw?....I suggest read the posts again Mate....-

I read the posts again. Seems clear.

If ageing glue is the weak link whatever
If Polyeurethane is the better wearing

Welded Poly is the way to go.

[36valley]

For what it's worth

I went for Polyurethane when I bought my XS two and a half years ago. The boat lives with just a console cover, on a drive on dock all year round. Even with Covid it's had a lot of use, far more than the average leisure user but shows no evidence of it. The tubes come up like new after a wash with soapy water, even when they've been a Seagull meeting place!

Like Fastasfox I too researched the pro's and cons before making my choice. The only downside I could see was the internet's bias towards Polyurethane, based it would seem on out dated evidence.

But, I also accepted that the bias was probably going to work against me come the time to sell it. Given my internal layout is more suited toward commercial use than leisure I'm hoping that prospective buyers will come to the same conclusion as me. Time will tell, but it's something I factored into my decision.

If I was going to use a rib for diving or a sailing school where a fair amount of abuse is likely I would go polyurethane, by the time you come to sell it I think other factors may have more influence than tube material.

On the other hand, if I was going to use it for just a few hours a year and expected to be selling after only a couple of years or so, I would go Hypolon purely because most buyers will have been told that is the best material.

[Iron Dials]

The usual bun fight when this question is asked!

I’ve owned both types, XS with PU and Redbay with Hypalon.
They both hold air and have stayed attached to the hull.
They both wore fine. In fact neither really wore at all.
They can both be repaired by competent repairers without difficulty.

I think both Beamishken and 36Valley have given valuable info.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Our sailing club had 4 ribs, 3 ribcrafts & 1 xs a few years ago the xs which was 7 years old at the time suffered glue failure at the seams & needed a retube. I contacted xs on behalf of the club & without putting undue pressure on xs they offered to retube the boat for half price which the club had done. They made a cracking job & everyone was happy as the boat was 2 years out of its 5 year warranty. At the same time the 3 ribcrafts all required the tube tops to be overclad as they were threadbare in places. The pu xs on the otherhand was actually very tidy it had held its colour better and had worn far less than the ribcrafts.Apart from the glue failure, which is now a none issue as they are heat seamed the xs had faired better than the ribcrafts. Polyurethane without doubt is the tougher wearing material than hypalon so without the glue issue in theory its a better choice.
However if I was buying tubes I'd go for hypalon simply because of the ease of repair or adding accessories.
Which is best is a bit like saying is a merc better than a bmw or a ford better than a Vauxhall. Its purely a matter of personal preference imho

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app

You make a good point about the repair side of things..have your club had to repair the polyurethane tubes at all?
Xs did a video tutorial on repairing polyurethane and to be honest the repair did look decent....but then again you don't know how it stands up in real life.....but the I guess the extras must be glued on in any case.
Thanks for the Info.

[fastasfox]

Yes Dave...the battle rumbles on....if they could only seam weld Hypalon I'm sure we wouldn't be having this conversation. Cheers

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Draw?....I suggest read the posts again Mate....
Even the OP states Hyperlon "is a much tougher material"...the second poster says he'd indeed choose Hyperlon....Himself!..
And YOU! (I always thought a canny Yorkshireman)
Have had TWO High spec ...New custom RIB's BOTH made in Hyperlon....
Does that count??

After spending many hours at the Ribcraft factory and with Chris when he owned Henshaws and doing several re-tubes...I was left in no doubt what the industry thought was the premier material in all its many forms,grades,and finishes....
An opinion certainly born out by my 40 + experience messing about in/with inflatable Boats..... but Hey it's his money

I did state that Hypalon was tougher but the sticking point (pardon the pun) is the glue!
My experience isn't as well founded as yours but like I said h I have had some experience of the glue being the failure point.
Have you never had problems with Hypalon?
Cheers for the input.

[fastasfox]

Not having to worry about seam failure is a big plus I feel in defence of Polyurethane.
Cheers.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by 36valley

For what it's worth

I went for Polyurethane when I bought my XS two and a half years ago. The boat lives with just a console cover, on a drive on dock all year round. Even with Covid it's had a lot of use, far more than the average leisure user but shows no evidence of it. The tubes come up like new after a wash with soapy water, even when they've been a Seagull meeting place!

Like Fastasfox I too researched the pro's and cons before making my choice. The only downside I could see was the internet's bias towards Polyurethane, based it would seem on out dated evidence.

But, I also accepted that the bias was probably going to work against me come the time to sell it. Given my internal layout is more suited toward commercial use than leisure I'm hoping that prospective buyers will come to the same conclusion as me. Time will tell, but it's something I factored into my decision.

If I was going to use a rib for diving or a sailing school where a fair amount of abuse is likely I would go polyurethane, by the time you come to sell it I think other factors may have more influence than tube material.

On the other hand, if I was going to use it for just a few hours a year and expected to be selling after only a couple of years or so, I would go Hypolon purely because most buyers will have been told that is the best material.

To be honest I'm not fussed about resale values. You can see why it's a bit of a minefield of information...Hypalon is well respected i the Industry but nobody is talking about the glue. Thanks for the info.

[cgoing]

I have seen plenty of seam failures on both polyurethane and pvc tubes. Much more so then on hypalon boats. Polyurethane it self does not hold up so well in the sun hence why Wing coats the top of all their tubes with a techtane coating to protect them.
A lot of it also comes down to the specific builder and grade of material.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

To be honest I'm not fussed about resale values. You can see why it's a bit of a minefield of information...Hypalon is well respected i the Industry but nobody is talking about the glue. Thanks for the info.

TBH you hear very little about glue failure on Hypalon tubes. PVC yes, but not Hypalon. A decent set of Hypalon tubes should last 20-30 years with minimal care. When I say minimal care, I mean the the normal care & maintenance that any self respecting owner should afford their pride & joy, irrespective of tube material. I’ve had 4 Hypalon tubed RIBs & I wouldn’t hesitate to have another. If I had the choice of Hypalon over PU, I would choose the former, simply because I know it, I know how to care for it & how to repair it should the need arise. I’m not saying that Hypalon is better than PU; I don’t have the knowledge or experience to make that call. But I know that Hypalon is tried & tested.

Just my 2 penneth

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

TBH you hear very little about glue failure on Hypalon tubes. PVC yes, but not Hypalon. A decent set of Hypalon tubes should last 20-30 years with minimal care. When I say minimal care, I mean the the normal care & maintenance that any self respecting owner should afford their pride & joy, irrespective of tube material. I’ve had 4 Hypalon tubed RIBs & I wouldn’t hesitate to have another. If I had the choice of Hypalon over PU, I would choose the former, simply because I know it, I know how to care for it & how to repair it should the need arise. I’m not saying that Hypalon is better than PU; I don’t have the knowledge or experience to make that call. But I know that Hypalon is tried & tested.

Just my 2 penneth

The explanation for the pu glue failure & none failure on hypalon was that uv can penetrate the earlier pu materials and degrade the glue whereas uv cannot penetrate hypalon nor newer pu materials. They use the same glue for both so it seems a reasonable explanation

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app

[Orwell boy]

Just my personal expierience ,in 2017 i bought a usa made Hyperlon nautica rib ,the rib was a 900 hour 2011 boat out or Florida ,indeed somebodies daily driver as a yahct tender and entertainment ,diving sking etc ect , the Hyperlon had seen lots of florida sunshine ,was white and was knackered ,i patched to improve but finally went for a retube in Hyperlon this autumn which was more than needed after 6 years
All i am saying is extreme sunshine (far more than we could dream of in uk ) did kill my hyperlon tubes on the nautica which was a florida buit rib and tubes ,however as i said it didnt stop me from choosing hyperlon again (carbon impression this time )
Must confirm no seam failure or air leakage though .

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

All i am saying is extreme sunshine (far more than we could dream of in uk ) did kill my hyperlon tubes on the nautica….

Hypalon is much more UV resistant than Hyperlon.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

TBH you hear very little about glue failure on Hypalon tubes. PVC yes, but not Hypalon. A decent set of Hypalon tubes should last 20-30 years with minimal care. When I say minimal care, I mean the the normal care & maintenance that any self respecting owner should afford their pride & joy, irrespective of tube material. I’ve had 4 Hypalon tubed RIBs & I wouldn’t hesitate to have another. If I had the choice of Hypalon over PU, I would choose the former, simply because I know it, I know how to care for it & how to repair it should the need arise. I’m not saying that Hypalon is better than PU; I don’t have the knowledge or experience to make that call. But I know that Hypalon is tried & tested.

Just my 2 penneth

The only experience i have of glue failure on Hypalon is the 80's Zodiac with it's seams systematically failing and the Bow seams failing on my Tornado with PU.
If you could weld Hypalon or fix air leaks easier on Polyurethane then I don't think this debate would exist.
If I'm going to invest 4k on a new collar then I want more than 10 years out of them as £4000 is a lot of money to me. Honestly it's such a minefield......thanks for your two pence.

[fastasfox]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Just my personal expierience ,in 2017 i bought a usa made Hyperlon nautica rib ,the rib was a 900 hour 2011 boat out or Florida ,indeed somebodies daily driver as a yahct tender and entertainment ,diving sking etc ect , the Hyperlon had seen lots of florida sunshine ,was white and was knackered ,i patched to improve but finally went for a retube in Hyperlon this autumn which was more than needed after 6 years
All i am saying is extreme sunshine (far more than we could dream of in uk ) did kill my hyperlon tubes on the nautica which was a florida buit rib and tubes ,however as i said it didnt stop me from choosing hyperlon again (carbon impression this time )
Must confirm no seam failure or air leakage though .

Yes the heat is a different kettle of fish out in Florida...I used to live in Grand Cayman so i get all about Sun damage...warped car dashboard etc
But like you say in the UK conditions are only extreme for short periods of time so. My Tornado was left un covered and over the past few years when we have had extreme heat waves then the glue on the bow section ( the most exposed) had baked to a crisp.....daft leaving it uncovered for the sake of a couple of hundred quid for a solar cover.
Cheers.