Starting boating? Nos's guide for beginners. - Page 2

codprawn · 27 January 2006, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Man that's gonna feel good. I've never bought new, but I love the feeling of achievement after getting something on the water for the 1st time and everything works. Still remember the mad grin I had on my face after I opened the throttle wide on the sr4 for the 1st time and everything did what it was supposed to

Never buying new is usually a very good idea - let some other mug pay for depreciation.

Jon penrith · 05 February 2006, 12:53

Why are ratchet straps not a good idea?Currently use a heavy duty one around the rear tubes & trailer.
On the not of checking bolts etc.I had an accident where my boat which was bought from a dealer on a reconditioned trailer.parted company with my car & entered the opposite carriageway resulting in a head on.Thought I had killed someone which resulted in bad nightmares,£385 pound fine & 3 penalty points.This was only the 3rd time I had towed it.Traffic police vehicle examiners report showed that bolts securing the tow hitch to trailer were worn causing fatigue.As I drove over a pot hole they sheared off.Tow hitch did not appear loose.Point is....if its old replace it even if it looks fine.You cant see metal fatigue with the naked eye.
Jon

Nos4r2 · 05 February 2006, 18:26

To secure any RIB over the tubes hard enough with a ratchet strap will probably overpressurise the tubes-and if you have any leaks at all the strap will come loose.It'll leak faster when overpressurised and when you go over a bump and the boat tries to bounce it'll put even more pressure on the tubes. Not only that, ratchet straps tend to be abrasive. The one I used across my old hardboat rubbed through the gelcoat rather fast and started on the glass too-even with padding-and gelcoat is harder than tubes.

jyasaki · 06 February 2006, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

To secure any RIB over the tubes hard enough with a ratchet strap will probably overpressurise the tubes-and if you have any leaks at all the strap will come loose.It'll leak faster when overpressurised and when you go over a bump and the boat tries to bounce it'll put even more pressure on the tubes. Not only that, ratchet straps tend to be abrasive. The one I used across my old hardboat rubbed through the gelcoat rather fast and started on the glass too-even with padding-and gelcoat is harder than tubes.

Okay. So a ratchet strap over the tubes is a) going to be too tight, and b) abrasive. So what's the alternative?

A rope over the tubes is going to have to be tighter than a wider piece of webbing to hold the boat down as securely (narrower profile means higher pressure loading at the contact point for a given amount of force), and all that force will be concentrated (thus, the abrasion factor will be higher, or rather all the abrasion will be concentrated in a smaller area.

Gelcoat is harder than the tubes, but is probably less forgiving in terms of scuffing and wearing through.

IMO, you basically need to secure your boat in two different ways (perhaps 3):

First, you want to keep the rear of the boat from bouncing or sliding off the trailer (i.e. keep the transom centered on the trailer.) Transom tie-downs with a bit of tension do a nice job of this. Ratchet straps make it quick and easy to get enough tension to pre-stretch the nylon webbing (polyester would be better as it has less stretch, but it tends to age quicker.) Cam straps are OK, as are just about anything else that will keep the boat from walking around on the trailer.

Second, you want to keep the boat from sliding off the back. Most people use the winch strap to the bow eye to accomplish this (take heed if you're following your friend whose trailer is equipped with a balky/corroded trailer winch.) In the US, we usually use an additional short piece of chain to either the bow eye or to the J hook on the end of the winch strap, just in case teh strap or the winch give way.

The third is one that I seem to be more concerned with than most (which, of course, means it may be a non-issue for a lot of people.) Should the bow of the boat come loose, but the transom remain tied, the nose of the boat is going to try to become the back as the wind catches underneath. For this reason, I usually try to use a strap over the front third of the hull to keep the boat's centerline parallel to the trailers should this occur. Probably overkill, but it is one of my concerns. On the new boat, there is no easy way to go over the boat, so I am thinking about getting some kind of tertiary chain which will run from the bow eye down to the trailer tongue.

Note that I have an aluminum hull, so having a bunch of stress on the hull concerns me less than it would if it was a glas hull.

My $.02; [sorry; that would be .011 pounds]

jky

dctucker · 06 February 2006, 22:29

To date, I've only trailered my RIB <5 miles round trip to and fro about town for launching and retreival a number of times. For this I've depended on the chain to the winch tower and a single racheting strap across the boat over the top of the tubes. I'm planning for a 2800 mile round trip in about 2 months, and giving all this a bit more serious consideration!

I've pretty much settled on racheting transom straps to the stern eyes, criss-crossed from the opposite side of the trailer. These will provide a down, centering and forward force as well, so I'm planning another rachet strap from the bow eye, down and aft to the tongue, just aft of where the sides of the trailer join the tongue. this will provide the down and aft pull.

I've got quite a list of work to do for this trip to the trailer and boat, including figuring out how I'll handle having the 5 month old child aboard while coaching my wife and her new skipper.

Probably handle that by strapping a car seat on the floor, just forward of the jockey console, of just forward of the ice chest I've planned on strapping down there. Or perhaps he should just stay in the Baby Bjorn chest carrier!

I'm also designing a frame to have built on the trailer to allow me to carry a 700 lb sailboat above the rib. The added weight will require adding brakes to the trailer, so probably an all new axle & springs as that sounds like the cost effective way to go as there are no brake backing plates on the current axle. The added benefit of that is new hubs/bearings, etc... Gotta beg, borrow or steal a spare tire too!

dctucker · 06 February 2006, 22:33

To date, I've only trailered my RIB <5 miles round trip to and fro about town for launching and retreival a number of times, at speeds under 30 mph. For this I've depended on the chain to the winch tower and a single racheting strap across the boat over the top of the tubes. I'm planning for a 2800 mile round trip in about 2 months, and giving all this a bit more serious consideration!

I've pretty much settled on racheting transom straps to the stern eyes, criss-crossed from the opposite side of the trailer. These will provide a down, centering and forward force as well, so I'm planning another rachet strap from the bow eye, down and aft to the tongue, just aft of where the sides of the trailer join the tongue. this will provide the down and aft pull.

I've got quite a list of work to do for this trip to the trailer and boat, including figuring out how I'll handle having the 5 month old boy aboard while coaching my wife and her new skipper.

Probably take care of that by strapping a car seat on the floor, just forward of the jockey console, or just forward of the ice chest I've planned on strapping down there. Or perhaps he should just stay in the Baby Bjorn chest carrier!

I'm also designing a frame to have built on the trailer to allow me to carry a 700 lb sailboat above the rib. The added weight will require adding brakes to the trailer, so probably an all new axle & springs as that sounds like the cost effective way to go as there are no brake backing plates on the current axle. The added benefit of that is new hubs/bearings, etc... Gotta beg, borrow or steal a spare tire too!

Finally got around to dropping the lower unit of the outboard to change the water pump impeller and gearbox oil! Have it all apart at the moment, need to go buy a new impeller and spark plugs tomorrow.

The Jackeens · 07 February 2006, 19:34

Nice piece of helpful work NOs4r2!

Us

Nos4r2 · 07 February 2006, 20:18

Cheers Jackeens!

I've got a big PADDED padlock on my bow eye with a high security chain as well as the winch-and it's chained to the trailer with it. IF my winch/winchpost etc gives way the maximum it can move is about 2 inches up and back. When we've launched I use it to chain the trailer to the tow vehicle. Doubly useful

CJL · 11 February 2006, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dctucker

I've pretty much settled on racheting transom straps to the stern eyes, criss-crossed from the opposite side of the trailer. These will provide a down, centering and forward force as well, so I'm planning another rachet strap from the bow eye, down and aft to the tongue, just aft of where the sides of the trailer join the tongue. this will provide the down and aft pull.

I had a close call when the RYA SW Rib nearly came off its trailer on the top of Dartmoor.

It was a porters rib with a tohatsu on the back and I had it on the back of an empty LDV Minibus. Little old lady in front of me stamped on the breaks in front of me and indicted right into a side road.

I had to break so hard that the rib snapped the pathetic ratchet strap and rolled up the roller coaster trailer towards the minibus.

The only think that stopped it was the slack in the winch cable that was taken up. The front tube on the boat was mm from the rear windows.

Fortunately a load of truckers saw the whole think in the cafe on the other side of the road and helped me sort it all back out. Lots of replacements ropes were used!! One of the truckers gently pointed out to the little old lady what had happened as she was totally oblivious!

They say learn by your mistakes so I avoid LDV minibuses

and put a few straps on my boat.

The rear is a 5 tonne rachet from the back eyes on my trailer, up to the transom, through the towing eyes and back down the other eye on the trailer.

At the front I have a safety chain to act as a fail safe for the winch. (winches do have a habit of popping teeth and this is not good on your gel coat) Plus when I tow I use another 5 tonne rachet from the front eyes on the left hand side of the trailer, under the front cross bracing, up to the bow eye then back down to the cross brace. This then leads back to the eye on the right hand side of the trailer.

Possibly over the top but it tows very well like this and I'm reassured I wont lose anything.

Chris

PS - if your doing a lot of towing get bearing savers fitted!!!

chris p · 11 February 2006, 03:18

I do a lot of towing with my boat, and i have a heavy duty strap across the stern, and use the painter to tie down the bow as well as the winch strap(when i remember an extra strap through the eyes on the transom. Ive never used bearing savers, just make sure the bearing are cold when launching. and i check the bearing regulary.

dctucker · 11 February 2006, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL

I had to break so hard that the rib snapped the pathetic ratchet strap and rolled up the roller coaster trailer towards the minibus.

Possibly over the top but it tows very well like this and I'm reassured I wont lose anything.

My plan is very similar to what you sketched out, except using two straps in an X pattern across the transom. That's primarily because I can't go straight down from the stern eyes to the trailer due to the positioning of the SmartTabs. Haven't purchased the straps yet. Based on your experience, I'll spend a touch more for heavier duty straps than I had planned! That forward force under heavy braking is what concerns me. I don't expect to be accelerating with enough force to slide the boats backwards off the trailer.

There's bound to be a lot of opportunity for things to go wrong in a 4500 km trip, hauling a 2 boat trailer with weighing ~1000 kg... I'm trying to plan ahead to avoid problems! The wife's Saab estate needs a bit of TLC in advance as well.

There's a blizzard expected here tonight and tomorrow, so the trailer shop didn't have time to see me yesterday as they were buried in work on snowplows. I'm itching to get the trailer ready to carry the sailboat. I hope I'll be able to get it out of the snow to them this week! Forecast is for 12-14 inches by Sunday evening.

CJL · 11 February 2006, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dctucker

I don't expect to be accelerating with enough force to slide the boats backwards off the trailer.

You mean to say you don't have a ferrari to tow with????

Rogue Wave · 19 May 2006, 21:24

I am surprisd this thread didn't carry on a bit further as it should have given the excellent guide that started it!

so here's some thoughts as always in random order!

advise carrying spare 2 stroke oil (not needed for 4 stroke Johnnies)

suggest regular users of two stroke engines inspect the plugs on a tri monthly basis.

Possibly suggest the use of multifunction components on small boats. e.g. you can get a paddle and boat hoak combined and a funnel/bailer cuts down clutter on the small boats .

Nos4r2 · 20 May 2006, 06:17

Yeah good ideas.

I was wondering about expanding a lot on this and selling it on ebay as an e-book.
I probably will when I get a couple of days spare to do it.