stuff definition - Page 2

Rodan · 24 May 2006, 11:06

For the helmsman but what about the poor bugger on the foredeck!

gtflash · 24 May 2006, 11:38

thought u guys would like this. when i get bored i tend to look for stupid answers to stupid questions. Maybe the yacht pic answers my real question. My only REAL stuff was in a 3m rib off of calshot, im still convinced my drop of throttle made it worse. Is a stuff really just getting wet when u hit a following wave?? if so ive done it more times than can count! i kinda presumed a real stuff is when the nose is burried so hard you either submerge (like boatmad vids)or it stops the front of the boat completly regardless of what the backs trying to do, this could result in broach or hooking maybe too??

imho I think the most common is the second type especially in ribs... anyone agree?? due to speeds etc. if so why do so many people presume a rib with larger tubes and an upswept bow to reduce chances of stuffing. Could that not infact increase chances as there is more of a wall to impact into a wave??would a smaller bow such as maybe, banana shark, revenger, phantom not mearly punch through instead of stopping??

My boat is amazing in a following sea and it has a very low profile front... and no tubes!! its also stepped and doest raise its nose to any great extent but it does have a huge flare in bow section that makes it excel, i do get wet sometimes and it aint so good in a head sea or solent chop!!

just thinking aloud and not a rib driver so have no first hand experience of ribs and stuffs

Jonny Fuller · 24 May 2006, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

i kinda presumed a real stuff is when the nose is burried so hard you either submerge (like boatmad vids)or it stops the front of the boat completly regardless of what the backs trying to do, this could result in broach or hooking maybe too??

I agree.

Taking the top off a wave and getting a bit wet isn't what I'd call a stuff.

If you find yourself wet, boat swamped and a little dazed, you probably stuffed it (but that'd be a slow one) Anyone who swims away from a stuff like the 19 Phantom in the Cowes vid, is VERY lucky! They're a real neck braker.

And there's plenty of ribs out there now running at, or near the speeds that P19 was running (74mph)

Rodan · 24 May 2006, 16:16

I would agree that a proper stuff includes burrying the bow and coming to an abrupt (and wet) halt...

Andy Gee · 24 May 2006, 16:54

Stuff: Going from speed to fek all in a blink, shaking off the water from you wet head, whilst wondering what the hell is going on only to find your knee deep in water with the portable fuel tanks floating away between the engines and only being held there by the fuel lines.
The bow compartment of the tubes going flat, because the over pressure valves have let go and it all generally going to shite.
Fortunatly, for me anyway, it all got better very quickly as well

Big toobs and a turned up nose..............didn't make a bit of difference

, learning from it......priceless
Andy

Biggles · 24 May 2006, 21:13

My definition of a stuff is one I did earlier this year.
Off Calshot going at high speed into shortish steep waves, flew over a few of them then came to an abrupt halt when the front half of the boat disappeared under a mountain of water. The boat came to an sudden halt and everything went eerily quiet. As this was the first time it had ever happened to me I just sat there for a few seconds looking at my poor boat totally full of water. Even the transom was under water. Don't underestimate what goes through your mind, I've got a a fair few inches of water in boat on loads of occasions but nothing nowhere near as dramatic and instant as that. My greatest relief was that the tubes were intact and after trying a few things I realised the engine was still working so I managed to get the boat on the move and tilted up at a sharp angle by tilting the engine out I got rid of a lot of water. the bilge took a good 15 minutes to get rid of the rest of it. No lasting damage, thank god. I have stuffed it again since off the Needles and now know to keep going as this is really the only way to get rid of the tremendous amount of water.
The whole experinece was on a par with having a big car accident. Its just as dramatic and the brain reacts to it the same.
Its one of those things you need to do to be ready for it in an emergency and its one of the things I would have liked to have shown to me practically on a RYA course.
My next exciting experience is trying to work out how steep a wave my boat can safely handle without tipping over. Obviously I don't want to tip over but I want to know how far I can go.
What I would like to do is get a camera set up on the A Frame like has been done recentlt on this forum and then be able to study the results.

gtflash · 25 May 2006, 10:23

interesting answers guys...!!!

not al what i expected

Kernow Buoy · 25 May 2006, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

and its one of the things I would have liked to have shown to me practically on a RYA course.

Which is why I decided

to stuff my Rib on my level 2 course! The instructor showed his skill however by ducking toward the stern and with his oilies on managed to stay fairly dry, I however ducked forward toward the wave thus presenting my high necked jacket which acted as a funnel, filling not just my jacket but all the way down to my boots!
Similarly to Biggles I thought I'd lost the engine for a few seconds and was in a right old haze as to what to do next, live and learn

Andy Moore · 25 May 2006, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcosis

Technically thats called a Pitch-Pole, very nasty especially for the helmsman.

I heard that there was a guy on the foredeck who got plunged 11 feet under the water.

codprawn · 25 May 2006, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

imho I think the most common is the second type especially in ribs... anyone agree?? due to speeds etc. if so why do so many people presume a rib with larger tubes and an upswept bow to reduce chances of stuffing. Could that not infact increase chances as there is more of a wall to impact into a wave??would a smaller bow such as maybe, banana shark, revenger, phantom not mearly punch through instead of stopping??

Most true offshore RIBs have turned up noses and big tubes - look at Ocean Dynamics - Delta - Tornado - Humber/Quinquari - Avon etc etc.

They do make a stuff a lot less likely - although when the stuff DOES occur they prob do make things worse!!!

http://www.riblog.co.uk/blog/media/chris-and-brad.wmv

This video shows it clearly - look which boat stuffs - it is NOT the one with the upswept nose.

Bit like driving a 4x4 down a steep slope - if you have a big overhang at the front you will bit the ground hard - approach angle they call it.

ADS · 25 May 2006, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Most true offshore RIBs have turned up noses and big tubes - look at Ocean Dynamics - Delta - Tornado - Humber/Quinquari - Avon etc etc.

They do make a stuff a lot less likely - although when the stuff DOES occur they prob do make things worse!!!

http://www.riblog.co.uk/blog/media/chris-and-brad.wmv

This video shows it clearly - look which boat stuffs - it is NOT the one with the upswept nose.

They are both Ospreys though, which are generally regarded as capable offshore boats and not shallow v type med style day boats. I think Hugh's nose was a little higher due to firstly the design, secondly he has a bloody great 200 opti on the back and finally he was trimmed out a little.
Downhilldai, probably got the wrong end of Hughs wake, and it wasn't a true stuff as far as I can see, just taking the top off a wave.

Carl · 25 May 2006, 13:57

and different speed

Biggles · 25 May 2006, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADS

They are both Ospreys though, which are generally regarded as capable offshore boats and not shallow v type med style day boats. I think Hugh's nose was a little higher due to firstly the design, secondly he has a bloody great 200 opti on the back and finally he was trimmed out a little.
Downhilldai, probably got the wrong end of Hughs wake, and it wasn't a true stuff as far as I can see, just taking the top off a wave.

Agreed.

Richard B · 25 May 2006, 14:38

Unless I'm mistaken, one of them is a 6.5m RIB and the other is a 5.5m RIB. You can't ever compare the performance of two hulls with 18% LOA difference!

ADS · 25 May 2006, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

Unless I'm mistaken, one of them is a 6.5m RIB and the other is a 5.5m RIB. You can't ever compare the performance of two hulls with 18% LOA difference!

Your right as usual Richard, they are infact drastically different boats: I ve just checked Downhilldai's profile and its a Northcraft

So my post was infact utter bollocks anway!!

Hugh Jardon · 25 May 2006, 15:00

i was going to say that they are not both ospreys.....

brads boat has a lot less bow rise than mine but also he had loads of fuel strapped into the front of his boat making matters even worse

i have a clear 1.5 m advantage as my boat is nearer 6.9 m than 6.5 and when the boats are side by side the difference is quite noticable.

brad got wet quite a lot during the day and i would venture to say he never really stuffed it in the true sense of the word he just got splashed a lot. main prob was the heavy load at the front of the boat and the vid was actually the worse one of the day by all accounts. we had a fair bit of wind and a bit of chop which swept any airborne water over the boat which did not help.

Brad Roy and myself will be out and about on the water over the next few days so we shall have some fun and we can do some more pics and vids hopefully

with the 200 we have been airborne a lot of times and the vid was a tiny tiny airbourn incident but i must say that it always lands very nicely and softly so very chuffed, does nto seem to be in any way tail heavy so far

Neal · 25 May 2006, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADS

So my post was infact utter bollocks anway!!

Downhilldai · 25 May 2006, 22:52

I'll try moving my fuel load aft this weekend, where it belongs. It's been fine back there for the last 12 years, but you have to experiment with these things.

gtflash · 26 May 2006, 11:15

on the subject of ospreys, i can think of one example of a non big upswept bowed boat that is good in following seas!! a lynx! why cause its hard nose cuts, and goes through the waves.... which reminds me... new post!

BogMonster · 26 May 2006, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Most true offshore RIBs have turned up noses and big tubes - look at Ocean Dynamics - Delta - Tornado - Humber/Quinquari - Avon etc etc.

They do make a stuff a lot less likely - although when the stuff DOES occur they prob do make things worse!!!

http://www.riblog.co.uk/blog/media/chris-and-brad.wmv

Can I change the subject slightly, to ask: what is the likelihood of damaging the engine over-revving if your prop comes out of the water like happens on the leading RIB as it comes past in that vid? I have had a couple of little surges in mine when hopping waves but it is something I am a bit paranoid about! On the other hand I suppose it is not uncommon for outboards to do this so should I be worried about it or not? Maybe new sexy engines have rev limiters on but I am pretty sure mine doesn't.