Support Boat

crofter · 19 August 2021, 15:10

Hi all. Newbee to the forum. I've had small fishing boats before but a friend has bought a RIB that I can use, woohoo! One thing we want to do is use the boat as support for open water swimming (sometimes with paying clients).

Does anyone know what regs (if any) cover the use of boats for support/safety etc? Do they need to be coded for this? I have looked into the coding stuff and for occasional use the cost of coding, insurance and certified PB2 would not be viable way to go I don't think.

I guess this is similar to sailing centres who have a support RIB. Given the state of some of the ones I've seen, I guess they aren't coded!!

Poly · 20 August 2021, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by crofter

Hi all. Newbee to the forum. I've had small fishing boats before but a friend has bought a RIB that I can use, woohoo! One thing we want to do is use the boat as support for open water swimming (sometimes with paying clients).

Does anyone know what regs (if any) cover the use of boats for support/safety etc? Do they need to be coded for this? I have looked into the coding stuff and for occasional use the cost of coding, insurance and certified PB2 would not be viable way to go I don't think.

mgn280 holds the answers to some extent but you need to read carefully to understand the various nuances.

Quote:

I guess this is similar to sailing centres who have a support RIB. Given the state of some of the ones I've seen, I guess they aren't coded!!

There are similarities but:
- special rules for boats used for training under the auspicious of a national governing body (RYA) - RYA inspect boats though
- club boats not run for payment will be outside coding
- if it all goes wrong the maib are rather scathing if you’ve not been following both the spirit and the letter of the rules

I’ve supported open water swimmers both as one off and as part of big events. To be honest a rib is not the ideal vessel - a kayak is far better unless something has gone really bad. A rib is useful for bringing people back after one-way swims but if that’s paid for you are definitely in coding territory.

ThundercatRob · 20 August 2021, 09:06

I believe my boat was previously used as a safety boat, for open water swims etc. Not sure of licencing requirements, but would be a lot easier to get an exhausted swimmer into the boat, than a RIB. Also a lot more manoeuvrable

crofter · 20 August 2021, 09:39

Thanks. I realise a RIB isn't an ideal support for smaller trips - we use a SUP for that. But this RIB has a swim platform and swim ladder so it's very easy to get into.

I will ask RYA I think, see what their take on it is. I suspect coding may be the way to go in order to do one way swims etc.

Poly · 20 August 2021, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by crofter

Thanks. I realise a RIB isn't an ideal support for smaller trips - we use a SUP for that. But this RIB has a swim platform and swim ladder so it's very easy to get into.

bear in mind that's easy for a fit conscious swimmer to get into - the more important question is can you (and your crew) easily drag an exhausted swimmer in, and potentially is there space to treat an unconscious casualty etc?

Quote:

I will ask RYA I think, see what their take on it is. I suspect coding may be the way to go in order to do one way swims etc.

I'm not sure you'll get a definitive answer from RYA - perhaps if you were already a registered training centre, but even then I think they are wary of people using training as a front for rib trips etc; you might want to see if SwimScotland or whoever is the governing body for open water swimming have guidance / standards / rules.

I'm assuming the water you are planning to use the boat in is considered "at sea" rather than categorised waters? Because that could change things and add options for local authority approval.

Matt · 20 August 2021, 12:04

Sailing Clubs I'm a member of have never run coded boats and just require the helm to have at least PB2.

Back in the day we used to use Dell Quay Dorys - wet & uncomfortable, but were great platforms to provide support to sailing dinghies.

These days it's all RIBS, which are OK, but a lot harder to haul a tired & wet sailor who's in the water up over the tubes than over the side of a dory.

treerat · 21 August 2021, 14:03

I've ran some pretty major swim events, and usually have a kayak / Sup / Ski as swimmer support with ribs an outer ring where by the support draft will call the rib for transport.

As others have said, this is outside of coding (at present) so long as you are attending a private event and do not get paid for the use of the craft.

Swimmers can pay to attend, most events need income, but you can't be paid. Expenses are often covered, but be aware of what is a volunteer expenses, and what is payment!!

Poly · 22 August 2021, 10:04

I may be reading too much into the OPs original post and username. I don’t think he’s planning to run “events” or support other people’s “events”. I suspect his plan was to say something like “Fancy swimming to (or round) Island XXX - I’ll provide you rescue cover and give you a lift back”. I think if that is a pure for £££ transaction it’s definitely going to be in coding territory. If it was for friends for nothing it clearly is not. If it was for tennants in your holiday cottage, and not charging them any extra - it’s probably a grey area (no advert, not offered to all - probably falls in the friend/favour category; promoted as part of the cottage facilities and someone will grumble!).

As a commercial venture it’s probably a PITA. Swimmers are so tide dependant, weather dependant, daylight reliant, etc that a simple 2 hour trip requires flexibility to be available for multiple different times on different days.

Tim M · 22 August 2021, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

I'm not sure you'll get a definitive answer from RYA - perhaps if you were already a registered training centre, but even then I think they are wary of people using training as a front for rib trips etc; you might want to see if SwimScotland or whoever is the governing body for open water swimming have guidance / standards / rules.

The RYA are also a coding authority - you are able to code a vessel through them without needing to be a registered training centre. They will likely have an answer.

Dry_Doc · 22 August 2021, 22:43

As I understand it, if anyone onboard a vessel is being paid to be there, or the vessel owner is recieving payment to supply/operate the vessel, it's a commercial operation and the boat needs to be coded and the skipper hold a comercially endorsed ticket.

HDAV · 23 August 2021, 11:51

Certainly the boats I know of supporting long distance swimming are coded but the. Large scale open water swims 200 people swimming point A to B etc use a large number of un coded “surf rescue” boats for events…….. so it’s clear as mud,

Part of the reason it’s expensive to have a support boat is the need for coding, the relaxing of the rules a little while ago was to allow uncoded leisure craft to act in support of events, not to allow commercial ops to avoid coding …. 3 boats 1 of which is coded is potentially safer than just 1 coded vessel