Thames Byelaws - have your say - Page 2

timw · 18 June 2008, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by windpowered

Where does it say that?

If you look at Byelaw 18:

Sections 1 and 2 impose an 8 knot speed limit above Wandsworth Bridge, and in certain tributaries - no change.

Sections 3 and 4 impose a speed limit of 12 knots between Wandsworth and Margaretness, with the possibility of obtaining permission to exceed it. These sections are new.

There is nothing about speed limits below Margaretness (i.e. the 'deep end'), so no change there - basically do what you like subject to safe navigation and so on.

One of the issues the PLA have is striking a balance between river users on the move, and those affected by wash. Also, the Central London section of the Thames is, at times, running close to capacity.

I believe there is currently a voluntary 12 knot speed limit in Central London, and have heard that it has been well received by both commercial operators and others (e.g. houseboats).

I regularly attend liaison meetings with the PLA, and (especially when compared to local and central government and similar organisations) they are easy to talk to, and willing to listen to other points of view. (Remember, they didn't legally have to go for informal consultation on these byelaws - but they'd rather iron out any problems before the formal process starts). And many of the senior people are leisure sailors as well; so they do have some understanding of our point of view.

I've had a quick look at CJL's template letter (which addresses many other points as well) and that is exactly the style of letter which will be taken seriously. As far as speed limit examptions for Class V vessels are concerned, I have been told the intention is that they will only be given to boats which don't produce significant amounts of wash.

The issue is about speed limits on the Thames in London...Margaretness is so far out it can hardly be described as London.

You are incorrect in beleiving that "The 12 knot voluntary speed limit has been well received by "commercial operators and others (houseboats)." Some of the commercial operators with planing vessels are extremely concerned about these proposals, i.e. executive charter, river taxi and Rib ride operators.

As for houseboats, there are no houseboats between Vauxhall and Tower, and the only significent grouping of houseboats downstream of Wandsworth are at Cheyne Walk which are rarely affected by wash and most of the residents there are fully aware and appreciate that planing boats cause less wash.

richardjawilson · 25 June 2008, 14:11

What is the likely time this ruling may come into force? Autumn 08?

timw · 25 June 2008, 14:14

If it's implemented.

There are a great number of river users both private and commercial who are objecting strongly to these draconian measures, so with enough opposition it just may not happen.

Please write to object.

codprawn · 25 June 2008, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by timw

If it's implemented.

There are a great number of river users both private and commercial who are objecting strongly to these draconian measures, so with enough opposition it just may not happen.

Please write to object.

I wouldn't bet on it - there was uproar when they did this on Windemere - nobody wanted it and a lot of local businesses said they would be in trouble - the idiots brought it in anway and loads of people were hurt by it!!!

John Kennett · 15 July 2008, 14:25

OK, who's actually bothered to write? As of today, 49 people have downloaded the draft byelaws from the link in CJL's first post. That's not many. How many of those have written? I'd guess at less than half a dozen, which isn't going to get us very far.

If you disagree with any of the proposed changes then it's really important that you take the opportunity to say so before 25 July. After that, it's no good moaning because you will have had your chance. I've finally sent my letter off today, but I know how easy it is to let these things slide by.

Chris has written an excellent and comprehensive letter. Mine is shorter and raises fewer issues. I've attached the text of my letter below.

You now have two letters to use as a starting place your letter, so decide what you want to write, cut & paste as required, add your own comments, and send it!

John

Poly · 15 July 2008, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

OK, who's actually bothered to write? As of today, 49 people have downloaded the draft byelaws from the link in CJL's first post. That's not many. How many of those have written? I'd guess at less than half a dozen, which isn't going to get us very far.

JK - I originally saw this as "none of my business" as the chances of it directly affecting me were low. However I read your letter and post here and was motivated to pen an email to them. Although its unlikely that the rules will directly affect me - it seems to be a move in the wrong direction by overcomplicating things which can only discourage boating on the thames. Other rivers such as the clyde should be aspiring to be as well used as the thames but this will provide an opportunity for them to "mirror" this legislation and complicate my life too.

John Kennett · 15 July 2008, 18:40

I agree - it would certainly set a strong precedent.

Also, even if you have no plans to go boating on the tidal Thames at the moment it would be a shame to lose the possibility in the future. With the current byelaws it is possible to cruise through London at a reasonable planing speed without causing any danger or nuisance - it's a fantastic experience and everyone should try it sometime.

With a blanket speed limit of 12 knots, using a RIB in London would become almost pointless. Trying to cruise at just below planing speed is peculiarly unsatisfactory - far worse than doing that speed in a displacement boat.

John

Neil Harvey · 15 July 2008, 19:04

I put my hands up to not having done it yet, and keep meaning to but forgetting.
Now in my phone calendar for Sunday when I get back. I'll also do copies for my dad, sister, brother etc, and maybe a friend or two. the more the better I reckon.

Nos4r2 · 16 July 2008, 14:54

Just fired off an email-cheers for the template John

C2 RIBS · 17 July 2008, 21:35

Thank you for the reminder, have just my sent letter to Port of London Authority

Neil Harvey · 19 July 2008, 12:45

now done - sent today. Thanks for the drafts.

Bern Hanreck · 22 July 2008, 15:51

My email gone today.

Don't forget folks , the deadline is for all communications to arrive no later than this Friday ( 25th July ).

C2 RIBS · 24 July 2008, 11:23

Looks like you will get a response if you sent a letter similar to this:-

I am acknowledging receipt of your letter with regard to the Consultation Notice on the Draft Thames Byelaws 2008.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to this Notice. Your response/comments have been duly noted and will be given careful consideration, and reviewed along with other feedback in full, at the close of the consultation period.

Regards

Andrea Chell
Safety Management System Administrator

Poly · 24 July 2008, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Looks like you will get a response if you sent a letter similar to this:-

I am acknowledging receipt of your letter with regard to the Consultation Notice on the Draft Thames Byelaws 2008.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to this Notice. Your response/comments have been duly noted and will be given careful consideration, and reviewed along with other feedback in full, at the close of the consultation period.

Regards

Andrea Chell
Safety Management System Administrator

no response to email though? which considering they specifically invited email as a means of communication is a bit odd.

Bern Hanreck · 24 July 2008, 14:18

Your message

To: Andrea.Chell@pla.co.uk
Subject:

was read on 23/07/2008 10:18.

and......

Your message

To: julian.parkes@pla.co.uk
Subject:

was read on 23/07/2008 08:23.

So at least two people have " looked at " my email , but will they take anything on board ?

Poly · 24 July 2008, 22:57

Bern - I "asked" for a read reciept and delivery reciept in outlook. I got the delivery reciept but no read reciept - and its a week or so since I sent it (it was sent to Julian).

Thamesrib · 25 July 2008, 15:38

Pls can you send me the template. I think it is riduculous regarding the speed limit being enforced all the way down to Margaretness. I can see the point in Central London.
As a commercial operator (www.thamesribexperience.com) it takes all the fun out of the rise.
I attended the PLA meeting earlier this year and it is ridiculous that the exemption is being given to Thames Clipper when they are the biggest wake problem and as the lady said at the meeting who owns the river, Thames Clipper?

Bern Hanreck · 25 July 2008, 15:53

Thamesrib , see Page 2 post #13 for Chris's very comprehensive template , or Page 3 post # 25 for John's briefer version , but whichever you go with , today is the last day for submitting feedback.

CJL · 29 July 2008, 22:55

I was at a metting with the PLA today and they appeared concerned at a lack of responses to their consultation request.

I got the impression that if you've missed the deadline your response might still be considered.

Give it a try!!!!

Chris

codprawn · 29 July 2008, 23:10

i think lobbying some MPs would be a good idea - I have written to a few!!!