Thanks to rib net and rib international.

[crazyhorse]

Dear John,

This is not a Sales pitch,you either want to no whats happening in the Offshore Cruising Cabin rib world or not.

My experience and reasoning is that rib bying is a difficult thing and there are loads of pitfalls.

There are important decisions, that you have to make when buying an offshore rib and my feelings are that this can be discussed here in an open way,Its important to discuss these and come to your own opinions.

For to long the large rib market has been dominated by a few, and competition helps everybody and creates a better market with improvements to products and design.

I havnt mentioned who is building our boats and weather anybody can even purchase one in the U.K, indeed mine is definatley not for sale and at this moment in time you cant buy one until some time in 2004 at the earliest if your lucky.

In the meantime if anybody wants an honest and unbiassed opinion on the trials and tribulations of designing and importing into the European Market, what in my opinion will be a absolutley world beating product then feel free to ask.

Cheers Crazyhorse wheres my Hay.

[Jelly]

I think the Medina that they were given to provide rescue cover was sold a few years ago when they couldn't afford a new set of tubes.
It used to be moored in the Beaulieu river mouth.
The story went as I remember it 15th hand and drunk, so take with large shovel full of salt, that one of their 'saves' didn't not appreaciate being resuced and measures were taken to stop this happening again.
NOTE I am not condoning the actions taken nor support the vultures - damage of that nature is a pretty dispcable thing to do.

If you are a reader of Land rover international you will often see pieces on them helping out at events, though I'm not sure I agree with young kids standing so close to winch wires etc. as in the last picture I saw. I think the Chap's name is Capt Tiffy Peirce.

Any ideas what happened to the others?
Jelly

[Manos]

It aint built in South Africa as I tried emailing all the major suppliers and didnt get any responce.I had also heard that some of the S.A boats had problems with quality control.My attitude will anoy some in the same way when you say that Skoda is crap you find out the guy you spoke to owns a Skoda and finds it great !

EWith reference to the above statement I would like to take this opportunity and make the following comments:

1. Boats that are built in SAfrica are built to the highest of standard. The reason being that they have to cope with very rough and unfriendly seas and weather much worst than those you all have experienced in the UK or in other parts of Europe.

2. Boats such as GEMINI, MAKO, FALCON and others are all CE, DOT etc etc certified.

3. As far as I am aware the RIBs of all of the above makes have to pass a QC test before they come into the market. Thus ensuring high quality.

4. I owed a GEMINI 5 mtrs for the last 15 years and when I sold the boat it reflected on the price. I bought it £ 5,000 and sold it for £ 5,000. Now I have a FALCON 700 RSR and the boat's construction according to a North SEA RIB support manufacturer (who's a friend and cannot disclose his name at this stage- he makes RIBs for the North Sea rigs for the last 20 years) is better than those made in the UK at least.

4. I believe that the reason the SAfrican companies did not even bother to contact you was that RIBs in SAfrica are still RIBs.
i.e light construction of a hull with pontoons. Not a cruiser with some inflatable sections attached to it. That is not a RIB and you might as well call it a SUNSEEKER or a FAIRLINE or a barge or what ever you like. I believe that a RIB should versatile for launching and recovering and the main objective of a RIB is for someone to take a boat out on a day and then be able to hitch back on the trailer without too much of a husle or trouble. A boat 10 mtrs long (I think any way) does not comply with those criteria. Therefore in my books is NOT a RIB. Is just a poor man's cruiser

5. Finally (and the rest of the people here should forgive me for repeating my slef) I have attached a few photos of what you call 'a SCODA'. It doesn't look like a SCODA to me specially when it reaches 68 knots.

[Manos]

This looks pretty weel constructed to me

[Manos]

SCODA would be pleased to be associated with such a beauty..... and the price £ 12,000.00 last year £ 16,000 this year with 200 VMax Yam, 2 fuel tanks 70 ltrs and 2 filters, trailer, 2 bats, double hydrolic steering system, VHF/GMDSS, MAP-PLOTER GPS, RADIO CASETTE, COVER, anchors, chains, ropes etc etc
LOADED with goodies

[John Kennett]

Originally posted by crazyhorse
This is not a Sales pitch,you either want to no whats happening in the Offshore Cruising Cabin rib world or not.

I am very interested to hear about your new boat, and I am sure that lots of other people here are too.

However, if you have another look at your original message I am sure that you can understand that it could sound like a sales pitch. Especially these days where every sales pitch seems to start with "I'm not trying to sell you something but . . ."

Anyway, please don't take offense -- this doesn't need to get blown out of proportion. Looks like you're going to have enough flak from the South African supporters

Cheers
John

[John Kennett]

Manos

We've all seen those pictures before -- no need to post them again!

Whilst it certainly looks like a heavy lay-up, the inside of that hull hardly looks like a piece of precision craftsmanship. Look at the wavy lines of those stiffeners

John

[Manos]

I already said sorry for repeating my self will not post the same pics but I was just making a point. SORRY
This photo is before the inside was covered with fibre glass. Is how the boats should actually look inside before cosmetics come to effect.

[gaelforce]

I think most ribnet users would say that they would take a dim view of any attempt to turn this forum into a salesroom. However perhaps it is one giant one already. Some sell boats, others training, still more of us sell other more subtle concepts. Certain individuals sell themselves as technical experts, all-action heroes, deserving youths, offbeat philosophers, friendly matey types, comedians, et cetera. Why? Well in my humble opinion, the desire to copulate is behind it all. To this end human males engage in display-type behaviour to demonstrate their genetic qualities, even to other males. So perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on the boat salesmen. Now where did I leave that tube of Bostik?

[crazyhorse]

I look on with interest and even a philospher sticks his oar in.

Manos as far as your internals go I would be a bit concerned with the stiffeners not quit looking quite strait.

Or should I let you tell everybody that its great when it clearly is not,or is it a SCODA.


Seems Im the only guy on here Selling Nothing.

[Daniel]

I've got nothing to sell either but i still get told every time one of you tells the other what you are selling

...did i mention i sell PC's, phone systems,...

[Charles]

I know I will be shot down in flames......BUT.......I am a proud patriotic South African and I have to say, the build quality, to be precise, the finish, of most South African ribs leave a lot to be desired. You cannot question the hull integrity and strength but I am afraid they have a long way to go in achieveing the refinements of a Scorpion, Revenger and many other of the top UK rib builders. They are getting there, but please do not even think in comparing them at this stage - there is no comparison.

It hurts me to say this, but its a fact and I just wish, for their own sake they would pay more attention to the detail and QA.

[Alan]

the build quality of many RIBS, irrespective of which country they are built in leads a lot to be desired. Its partly to do with low volume production runs in what is often a cottage type industry - i.e. a couple of guys building tens of boats a year in a shed. Its also to do with the ever increasing popularity of RIBS and people wanting to cash in on the boom. Get rich quick philosophy doesn't usually extend to implementing any kind of quality systems.

The shrewd manufacturer who is looking for the longer term market will invest and train their people and grow their reputation through the quality of the product. This is where the opportunity lies now for some smart guys and gals. Maybe Manos' friends in S Africa are some of these, maybe Andre in Poland is (Andre are you building versions of the old BWM designs?). Maybe even Crazyhorse and his cabin RIB will take the iniative and capture his niche in the market for cabin RIBS.

If you really think about RIBS available in UK and get beyond the "well mine must be good cos I bought it and am a knowledgable chap etc etc" pride how many are really well built?

BTW, interesting post from Gaelforce, our resident philosopher. Not sure what category I come under but I can stress that I am not looking for any kind of intercourse other than social from any of you!!

Alan.

PS. Since its fashionable to advertise on posts nowadays can I just say that you should all go out and buy a doorbell, alarm system and some 13 amp sockets for Christmas.

[Flanker]

Anyone need anger management courses, or details of good R & R location let me know

Pete (reformed)

[thewavehumper]

I've got a couple of nice teperature controlled soldering irons for sale, proper jobs quite cheap.

Seriously though perhaps we should have a semi commercial thread for example. What better area for researching a rib product or service than here, if you can ask the right question you can get 20 very knowledgable replies and one from me in about 2 days. If that means the service or product is improved before it is launched then that is to our advantage.

I actually respect and admire the amateur status of Ribnet and would wish it too stay that way. The problem is when threads become advertorials which in this instance I don't think it was, certainly an awareness raising excercise and why not?
Perhaps it could become a Ribnet article?

I can think of three professional contributors who make valid comments without advertsing, and one of them offers free advice. I apologise for not knowing your names but they are the guys from Sealion, Henshaws and Ribcraft. Apologies to anybody I have missed out

So basically there must be a balance, and yes Mark I agree that it is sliding in the wrong direction, however the beauty of Ribbing is that most of the manufacturers are still enthusiast and users. Lets keeo it that way!

The soldering irons are 20 quid each by the way!

[Flanker]

Perhaps people with a commercial interest should volunteer to be tagged 'T' like they do in car adverts. Just an idea, people who don't want to read them don't have to. Better to be up-front than try to con the naive people on here

Pete
P.S. just a little joke

[Pete7]

Twenty Quid for a soldiering iron, they are cheaper at Argos, I amjust off there now actually as someone suggested you could get suspension seats there,

Pete

[crazyhorse]

Dear wave humper and others.

I agree with what you say and feel that this is not the place to sell your boat or even concept.

There is no harm in putting forward ones opinion, as all to often the small man is left out and is left in most cases in the dark to make difficult decisions and a forum hopefully is the place to air ones concerns.

Rib buying and selling is about the succsesfull companies making a profit and in most cases they want to sell the product with a healthy margin,sometimes giving value and sometimes pulling the wool.

This means that you give them your money and you get a product that costs them less than what you have paid them or unfortunatley they will not give it to you.

This has its advantages as products get developed unfortunatley sometimes for maybe the wrong reasons,but it happens.

When I looked into the Cabin Rib Market I could get no sense at all from some suppliers when I asked what must of been very annoying questions and I can understand why now.

In fact one took me out to sea at ribex and soaked me so I was the only guy walking around with wet pants?

I felt at the time that I must be cracking up becouse I wanted to spend,but becouse of the costs that were involved I wasnt going to put up with some of the trade and there Blarzay attitudes, Im of the belief that if a company cant be arsed to send imfo or answer questions then walk away. so I did.

You will see in the next few months what I did about it,I will be interested in your feelings then, I am also aware that if I have cocked up then Im sure it will be pointed out .It will cost me dearly, but Im confident I havent.

I believe that after a great deal of planninig and a commitment to taking into account loades of suggestions,and the work and extreem amounts of cash, that ribs will finally make the jump into the big boat market and those guys who maybe thought they were just inflatable boats, will not say that any more.
I may be wrong we will see.Maybe who cares,I do, as I feel Ribs are the best form of sea transport you can get and the transport of the future.

In my opinion of course

Watch this space

Crazyhorse

[crazyhorse]

I am now bored with my own forum,

I will answer no more questions on this subject,comment as you see fit.

I make no excuses for helping to develope what is going to be a great product and if in the future anybody wants any help from somebody who nearly lost a lot of money by buying the wrong rib then feel free to ask.

I expect arrival some time in September 2003.

Happy ribbing to all of ya, and thanks for the education.

Crazyhorse

Ps The boat needs no selling from me it will sell itself.

[Keith Hart]

Certain individuals sell themselves as technical experts, all-action heroes, deserving youths, offbeat philosophers, friendly matey types, comedians, et cetera

So I am in there then. I'm the 'et cetera'!

Keith (hey, I didn't mention Orkney once...Doh!) Hart