The Costs of Building RIBs - Page 7

Manos · 17 March 2003, 19:49

stawberries in June in Greece is a big NO NO.
However there are peaches, nectarines, apricots, melons, water-melons and lots and lots of WINE!!

Windchill · 08 April 2003, 11:45

I know this is an old thread, but how on earth can manufacturers justify the cost of a new RIB?

I have been looking for a new boat for some time now, and also want to change my car. Given a figure of £25 - 30K compare the complexity, sophistication, quality, backup, customer experience etc etc between the two!!

OK, car production "benefits" from economies of scale, conversely though, they therefore have, in proportion, considerably higher overheads to contend with.

A RIB is just seriously awful value for money!!!!

Manos · 08 April 2003, 12:26

Windschill, you are rubbing salt in the wound here.

I have started first (since I do not have any boats to sell unlike the majority of the people in this Forum) complaining about the exorbitant prices of RIBs (forget the sunseekers etc and the sailing boats) that manufacturers and retailers charge.

I find it ridiculous and also an insult to my intelligence that certain manufacturers want me to make me believe that say a 10 mtr cabin RIB 'because is made out of the best materials' (this is rubbish) costs over 130/150K to buy. And their smaller RIBs of say 7.50mtrs cost 45K+.
They must think that people are STUPID with a capital S. And I think that some are since they go and buy these boats for money that can buy half a house or 2 high tech cars. Further no one says to you that after you walk out of the showroom with the boat (never put it in the water) the boat will lose 25-30% of its value. Try this, buy a new boat from a dealer and after (say) a week take it back and say I don't like it please have it back and give me my money. See how much money the dealer will give you back. DEFINITELY not the amount you paid for the boat but 25%+ less.

In fact I know that a certain RIB manufacturer when he sells one of the bigger version RIBs he is making is NETTING (after labour and material cost) between 60-70K!!!!

Well he only needs to sell one of those RIBs and he's made it for a year!!!

I was met with a lot of bad feeling about my thoughts in this matter since (as I said before) the majority of the people in this Forum are in the boat trade and in one way or the other and they felt threaten (as I would if I was in their shoes) with my comments.

They do not want people to know. Do they??

Manufacturers just hide behind statements like high labour costs, very good material and all shorts of other rubbish they come up with to justify their greed.
Well if you look around you can see that to employ semiskilled and unskilled labour you don't need that much. And no one can convince me that you need people with PhDs to glue or make the fibre glass of a boat.
The material is issue is rubbish also as fibre glass is fibre glass (costing 3 euros/kg) and Hypalon (if you say specify ORCA which is got a good reputation) it will cost you about 3.5/4.5K for a 9-10 mtr boat.

I agree with you. There is no logic and people just pay without questioning anything.

Well not all people do that. Some are more clever than others If you know what I mean

PS Now I will have all the RIBNet coming hard on me but who B...Y cares

Alan · 08 April 2003, 17:41

Some big generalisations and accusations about your fellow RIb.netters. Most of us are in the boat trade? I dont think so. Most of us want to sell the unwary our overpriced RIBS? The only posters I know of here who actually build RIBS are Jace (Ribcraft) and Jason Norman (Prosport) plus our new friend Ribraff who might be able to sort you out a reasonably priced Cabin RIB. Plus of course Mr Diggler who I believe makes hardboats for a living.

The of course there is a certain greek gentleman hereabouts who tends to respond to every "what RIB should I buy" type post with a response about the jolly cheap Falcon RIB from South Africa he can supply for £xxxx. One assumes you dont do this for charity so some expression regarding pots and kettles is coming to my mind.

And for the record my job is keeping the population in the Uk in 13amp sockets, doorbells and burglar alarms. Nuffink to do with RIBS!

Alan

crazyhorse · 08 April 2003, 18:22

I see its come back again Manos

UK Reep OFF

ribraff · 08 April 2003, 20:10

It seems now that the cost of building ribs in this country may become a thing of the past soon, i know of 2 major rib builders who have moved their manufacturing abroad, they've also made a big song and dance about it too claiming that this will drive down the cost to the customer, new ribs available at amazing prices and so on. However, looking at thier new price list i don't see much of a difference!
Now some of you will see that i am maybe being specific here but i do not want to be accused of bringing forth slanderous comments.
I think the one thing that upsets me the most is that this has done nothing for the rib building industry in this country or the marine industry as a whole and has merely served as a manufacturing cost cutting move which has benefited the company and not the customer.
I only hope that other manufacturers don't follow the same route.

crazyhorse · 08 April 2003, 21:01

Rib Builders do it to make money,It is a constant amasement to me why maybe some feel that they do it cos they like ribs or us.

If they had an option to be the only supplyer then they would and charge what the maximum the market could stand or get away with.

They see us as people who will give them money,Nothing more nothing less.

Maybe they want the odd mate ,but its not the reason they make boats.

Some organise Class trips so they can keep control of there feedback and secondhand values.Otheres get there owners to shout there virtues from every forum,in the hope of getting a good deal for themselves at a later date.

As its cheap advertising and a noisy client is better on your side than against you.

Its a buisness and they want your Money. Or they are not interested in you.

Thats the way it is!

But be happy as us rib owners know what a great boat a rib realy is,

So who is in the long term is The winner,I think its us.

PS, My advice is if you cant get what you want and feel is fair then walk,Till you do,I did and I am happy.

matiboy · 08 April 2003, 21:02

will be to increase margins or stop eroding margins by going abroad

everyone is doing this

ring up your bank & you'll probably be speaking to someone in India earning 2.5 K pa

Phill · 09 April 2003, 00:03

? Is there anyone here with a business who's not trying to make a living ?
Manos I honestly think it is a (to quote one of the CH's ) "....beeg breetish reep off..." - but most of it is beeg breetish taxes - and this ain't a political forum.

Phil · 09 April 2003, 12:35

A few points:-

- the only way to protest against high or unjustified prices is NOT to buy

-Rib makers and distributors are no different to any other business in that if they price themselves out of the market they will have to cut prices or fold

-the huge increase in the Rib market compared to other boats suggests that us, the punters, are generally happy or are wealthy enough to pay too high prices ; I tend towards the former

-Ribs may , and probably do not offer good value when compared to other boats from major manufacturers ;i.e. you can buy a2 /4 berth sports cruiser with all attachments for the same price as an 8m Rib which is essentially an open boat with a lump on the back.But I don't think I need to give the answer why I and other Ribbers opt for the Rib

-there is still "a cottage industry " feel to many Rib makers where economies of scale are simply not available

-the advantage to the punters of the industry at the moment is that you can customise to some extent -try doing that in the mainstream market and watch the price escalate

-agree that manufacturing abroad hurts the UK market and is solely to retain or increase margin which is not for the punters benefit;they get the product cheaper but we are used to existing prices no magic there

Windchill · 09 April 2003, 12:40

Opps!!!

Actually, being in business myself, I have no problem with anyone making money: that, afterall is why we all do isn't it!! Mission statements of all sorts appeared a few yers ago, so mine became "to make as much as possible, for as little as possible, and keep the customers coming back", or words to that effect!!

My point is/was that the price of a new RIB actually makes a car of the same price look like value for money!!! Whatever any of the builders say, you CAN NOT compare the complexity/technology of your "average" £25-30K RIB to a car of the same price (I was going to use "value" but...).

OK, toys sell at a premium, and whilst people will pay, manufacturers will take their money. All quite reasonable really.

NO accusation of rip offs at all!! Just an observation.

Manos · 09 April 2003, 22:51

No one can convince me that boating is not a BIG RIP OFF!!

I cannot believe that labour costs are so much more expensive in the UK than it is in Spain, France, Italy, Greece!!

I do not dispute the fact that one does not work for charity but to make money. However, there is making money and MAKING MEGA MONEY. In the RIB business (unfortunately) the MEGA MONEY individuals are the majority and these are the people I will expose (with invoices, receipts, quality statements and quality inspection results etc etc) in the next few days!!

Just watch this space people my flew just got better!!!

crazyhorse · 09 April 2003, 23:07

Reep off UK

Glad you perked up a bit Manos,But dont loose the day job .

Remember we want to be out on the old Falcon soon so no excuses like Mi boss sacked Mi cos I never went to work as I went on a forum and mi life changed sort of thing.

Look forward to it,when your ready.

{

Manos · 09 April 2003, 23:11

I'm my own boss CH so there is no chance of that!!

Richard B · 09 April 2003, 23:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Manos
...these are the people I will expose (with invoices, receipts, quality statements and quality inspection results etc etc) in the next few days!!

Just watch this space people my flew just got better!!!

Intriguing - I look forward to it!

Manos · 09 April 2003, 23:52

Just give me few days Pepper

Fiona P · 12 April 2003, 19:04

Boys! Boys! No. 1 rule to buy a boat - If ya cant afford the boat go smaller, better to have the best of something ya can afford than go bigger and have a basic version!

Costings I can talk about - I did the costings for a small Rib company for 3 years! A nightmare...
It all depends on quality! You can buy an A frame for £300 but it's like having bicycle handles on ya boat - to manufacture an A frame especially for a client use to cost us aprox £1000 plus then fit it! Lay up of the boat depends on what construction you use! Engines thats the mine field - some times our customers could buy the engines cheaper than us the boatbuilders - that stinks but unfortunately true! I dont know about other RHIB boatbuilders but there is only a small mark up to be had! I'm sure some of you business men not in the trade would think the boat business not viable if you really knew the profit! It's more for the love and job satisfaction we do it!

For quality buy BRITISH!!!!!!!! he he he!!!

jwalker · 12 April 2003, 22:03

Boys! Boys! No. 1 rule to buy a boat - If ya cant afford the boat go smaller, better to have the best of something ya can afford than go bigger and have a basic version!

Mmmm... Not sure I agree with that Fi P.

Would you rather drive a basic Jag or a flashy ford?

JW.

bobbyboy · 13 April 2003, 11:23

I think that the reason RIB's are expensive is because boating in general is expensive.Apart from commercial uses,boats are what we spend our disposable income on,for our own leisure.If you can't afford a new one,maybe you could recycle an old one.much better for the environment and much better for your bank ballance

Fiona P · 13 April 2003, 14:53

JW - I didn't mean to compare two different makes - I believe! if ya can have a 7m or 9m from the same manufacture - I would rather have a top of the range, all singing and dancing new speed machine - rather than a 9m that is basic and more like a DIY vessel - no disrespect to DIY but it's horses for courses! A bit like a diamond it's not the size its the quality that counts!!! he he!!