The dreaded click click.

fastasfox · 04 June 2023, 14:41

Afternoon all.
I'm running late with my preparation of rib wakey this season and having serviced the leg I started checking her over. I turned the ignition only to hear the click click of the solenoid. When I first put the battery back in she cranked over fine but having serviced the outboard I tried cranking her over again....click click the starter wont turn.

The battery is fully charged, I have checked the neutral switch cleaned the connections, and when I cross the terminals the starter motor jumps into life but not off the key.
Any ideas?

Three weeks before I take her to Cornwall with me...HELP!

Thanks.

tinker · 04 June 2023, 15:46

The solenoids not operating, either on the power side or the control) Have you got 12 volts to the coil on it when you turn the key? if you have then it's a new solenoid , if you haven't then you have to trace back to where your losing the 12 volts, test across the key switch then trace it through, probably got a contact across a gear in neutral to stop you starting it in gear, test one part at a time using a multi meter set to continuity or dc volts if someone can turn the key for you while your testing.

If you have got 12 volts to the coil and the power contacts aren't made then its a new solenoid that's required.

Iankristy · 04 June 2023, 20:20

If it was working before then suspect man made issue( from experience we are the weak link ). Check neutral engaged, connection to battery tight, kill switch, battery switches engaged properly

fastasfox · 04 June 2023, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinker

The solenoids not operating, either on the power side or the control) Have you got 12 volts to the coil on it when you turn the key? if you have then it's a new solenoid , if you haven't then you have to trace back to where your losing the 12 volts, test across the key switch then trace it through, probably got a contact across a gear in neutral to stop you starting it in gear, test one part at a time using a multi meter set to continuity or dc volts if someone can turn the key for you while your testing.

If you have got 12 volts to the coil and the power contacts aren't made then its a new solenoid that's required.

The only thing is yesterday all was well and the only thing I hsve done since is change the oil and impeller.
Obviously I have disturbed something...I just have to keep digging. I will be honest with you I'm not confident using the old multi meter...I should try and get to grips with it. Cheers.

tinker · 05 June 2023, 16:37

Use YouTube to give you an idea on how to trace a fault with a multimeter. As Iankristy has pointed out chances are its something you have disturbed or not set up correctly, to change the impellor you have to drop the bottom end and disconnect the gear selection rod this might be an area to look in as the outboard may have a neutral check switch independent to the remotes.

fastasfox · 05 June 2023, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iankristy

If it was working before then suspect man made issue( from experience we are the weak link ). Check neutral engaged, connection to battery tight, kill switch, battery switches engaged properly

That's my train of thought exactly..I am tempted to replace all the wires connecting the three solenoids though just for peace of mind. I'm also going to order spare solenoid as it's a handy item to carry with me in my spares box. Cheers....I will post update in resolution from the problem...that way we all benifit not just me.

fastasfox · 05 June 2023, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinker

Use YouTube to give you an idea on how to trace a fault with a multimeter. As Iankristy has pointed out chances are its something you have disturbed or not set up correctly, to change the impellor you have to drop the bottom end and disconnect the gear selection rod this might be an area to look in as the outboard may have a neutral check switch independent to the remotes.

I pulled the leg off in neutral and put it back in neutral...My wife gently rocked the flywheel back and forth but didn't turn the engine over..and it slipped in a treat.

neil.mccrirrick · 05 June 2023, 20:08

Have you tried to start in gear just in case the switch isn’t set?

paddlers · 06 June 2023, 05:39

Have you tried a different battery . I've had a battery showing 12V that lost a cell and didn't show up until my local guy at the garage put his dedicated battery tester on it ?

fastasfox · 06 June 2023, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Have you tried to start in gear just in case the switch isn’t set?

Yes mate I gave that s go but no Joy.

fastasfox · 06 June 2023, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by paddlers

Have you tried a different battery . I've had a battery showing 12V that lost a cell and didn't show up until my local guy at the garage put his dedicated battery tester on it ?

I used the same battery to direct to the starter motor and it spun freely. The battery is l1 year old and I have kept it on a conditioner.....I do have another battery though so worth a try. Cheers

neil.mccrirrick · 06 June 2023, 08:03

On a mariner control box the neutral switch is a micro switch under the throttle assembly. Mine went a while ago and would not start on the key. Engine thought it was in gear permanentjy

fastasfox · 06 June 2023, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

On a mariner control box the neutral switch is a micro switch under the throttle assembly. Mine went a while ago and would not start on the key. Engine thought it was in gear permanentjy

I do have a new micro switch for it....but like I said before I removed the lower leg it was turning over. Thing is those pesky wire's can move about especially when you trim right up.

Trello · 06 June 2023, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastasfox

I used the same battery to direct to the starter motor and it spun freely. The battery is l1 year old and I have kept it on a conditioner.....I do have another battery though so worth a try. Cheers

If the battery spins the starter motor when connected directly, then you're losing some voltage in the wiring/other components. I would do as tinker says and use a multimeter to test across the various parts of the circuit.

The search term to use to get get help from the net or utube is "voltage drop testing".

spartacus · 06 June 2023, 21:49

Wiring can fail. Faults happen because manufacturers didn’t use tinned wiring. It oxidises and loses continuity. You can rule that out quite quickly with a multimeter.

Good shout from Tinker about 12v at the solenoid.

I’ve also had the micro-switch fail on my M70C Tohatsu remote that stops the engine starting in gear. It’s a generic micro-switch. Chances are you won’t even be able to source from Mariner. You can match from specialist electrical suppliers online withe current part.

Also check if there’s an in-line fuse? On Tohatsu, pretty sure it’s 20 Amp and lives near the CDI ignition in a plastic barrel connector.

fastasfox · 07 June 2023, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

Wiring can fail. Faults happen because manufacturers didn’t use tinned wiring. It oxidises and loses continuity. You can rule that out quite quickly with a multimeter.

Good shout from Tinker about 12v at the solenoid.

I’ve also had the micro-switch fail on my M70C Tohatsu remote that stops the engine starting in gear. It’s a generic micro-switch. Chances are you won’t even be able to source from Mariner. You can match from specialist electrical suppliers online withe current part.

Also check if there’s an in-line fuse? On Tohatsu, pretty sure it’s 20 Amp and lives near the CDI ignition in a plastic barrel connector.

I'm sure you can recall when I rebuilt her and posted about the build I had a similar problem and one of the things I checked was that micro switch. I found that it was damaged so I ordered a new one...just a couple of quid. I still have that switch so i could give it a go...but like I said it turned over the day before. I checked the in-line fuse and it's fine.

I think it's time to get to grips with the old multi meter...starting at the starter solenoid as suggested by tinker. At some point ( said the old procrastinator lol) I would like to replace the ignition harness by making a quality replacement....like you said " tinned".
I'm just hoping to get three or four more seasons out of this old clamshell outboard before replacing it with a four stroke, but I'm still waiting for the daft prices to come back down....I'm sure they will.....£6k for a 12 year old engine is mental. Oh hum.
Cheers.

tinker · 07 June 2023, 16:39

Once you get to grips with the multi meter you won't look back. Have a practice with a small battery or the boat battery.

If you have a wiring drawing for the outboard you can just test between ground and the positive line feeding the solenoid and work your way back until you find the issue. If you haven't got a wiring diagram then you will have to physically follow the cables through the various terminals, switches and contacts until you find the break.

If you hit a problem or something you don't understand then post on here and someone will help out. You will get a right buzz when you find the issue (if your anything like me)

fastasfox · 07 June 2023, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinker

Once you get to grips with the multi meter you won't look back. Have a practice with a small battery or the boat battery.

If you have a wiring drawing for the outboard you can just test between ground and the positive line feeding the solenoid and work your way back until you find the issue. If you haven't got a wiring diagram then you will have to physically follow the cables through the various terminals, switches and contacts until you find the break.

If you hit a problem or something you don't understand then post on here and someone will help out. You will get a right buzz when you find the issue (if your anything like me)

Yes it's high time I mastered the multimeter.
When I rebuilt my boat last year I had a similar problem but every time I cranked it over it blew the main fuse. I had tightened all the nuts on the conections and one of the ring connectors had spun round and was touching the wire next to it that went live whn I turned the key....like you say finding the fault is a great feeling.
Thanks for your help.

fastasfox · 13 June 2023, 06:03

Update on electrical fault.

First of all cheers Tinker, I'm starting to get to grips with the multimeter (just the basics) .
I had nearly 13v at the starter solenoid but not on the switch side when the key was turned. I fetched the starter motor off and tested it again and it was slow to spin and when it got going it started to screach..
I decided to take the starter appart and it was full of dust particles and the commutator was dull. So I cleaned the dust out and sanded the copper contacts etc and put a little grease on the bearings.
That prediction about the problem being man made ie me was also true. When I checked all the nuts on the connections we're tight I must of split the plastic isolator washer on the positive terminal on the starter motor, thus grounding out. So one thick rubber washer installed I now had a freely running motor.
I had an idea to swap the trim solenoid out for the starter solenoid just to prove or disprove my theory (bit of a faff) but when I turned the key the outboard turned over....New solenoid ordered.
So like most malfunctions it turned out to be a few problems not just a single failure and I dare say that the sluggish starter motor caused the solenoid failure.

Cheers for all your help.
Safe trips....Foxy.

tinker · 13 June 2023, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastasfox

Update on electrical fault.

First of all cheers Tinker, I'm starting to get to grips with the multimeter (just the basics) .
I had nearly 13v at the starter solenoid but not on the switch side when the key was turned. I fetched the starter motor off and tested it again and it was slow to spin and when it got going it started to screach..
I decided to take the starter appart and it was full of dust particles and the commutator was dull. So I cleaned the dust out and sanded the copper contacts etc and put a little grease on the bearings.
That prediction about the problem being man made ie me was also true. When I checked all the nuts on the connections we're tight I must of split the plastic isolator washer on the positive terminal on the starter motor, thus grounding out. So one thick rubber washer installed I now had a freely running motor.
I had an idea to swap the trim solenoid out for the starter solenoid just to prove or disprove my theory (bit of a faff) but when I turned the key the outboard turned over....New solenoid ordered.
So like most malfunctions it turned out to be a few problems not just a single failure and I dare say that the sluggish starter motor caused the solenoid failure.

Cheers for all your help.
Safe trips....Foxy.

That's great news, main thing is you have learnt more about the starter circuit on the engine, when you have a problem now you will be in a good position to diagnose the problem.