Too powerful?

CJL · 25 August 2008, 01:22

As I look around the world of RIBs there's a worrying trend that keeps popping up - manufacturers seem to be reducing the amount of Hp they rate their hulls for and/or they are selling them in packages with much smaller engines on.

I mean not many people are spec'ing a 6m boats to take 150hp's anymore. My 6m Ribtec is rated for twin 60s or a 150. In fact many years ago i went to look at 6m Delta with a 225hp on the back!!!! Nobody seems to go near that now. Ribcraft, Tornado, Ribeye appear to be supplying 5.8m to 6m's with 90hp four stokes!

Have ribs become too popular so that manufacturers are now dumbing down their products for fear of getting sued??

Chris

matt h · 25 August 2008, 06:56

good question!!
reckon its probally due to the fact that years ago, two strokes were the only option ,being lighter you could get away with having a large capacity lump hanging off the back,
nowadays four strokes are heavier, so have to reduce engine size to match transom,!!

Hangman · 25 August 2008, 08:27

In addition to what the above has said, it's possible that the newer generation hulls are lighter then the preceding models.

Hightower · 25 August 2008, 09:46

Might have something to do with the credit crunch.....Recession....Whatever

Smaller outboards keep the sale prices lower and might appeal to someone that wanted to keep the running costs lower.

Other than that the above might well be true, however I would have thought the Hull Manufacturers would have built in extra strengh to the transoms to support the heavier engines.

Maximus · 25 August 2008, 10:52

I cant comment on other manufactures,but if you look at the Ribcraft web site,you will see they do indeed still rate thier 585 up to 150HP for as they say " bistering performance" although 90hp will surfice.
It depends on what you want from your R.I.B.but it IS nice to know however the manufacturers themselfs have the confidence in thier product to give you a choice of a wide power band option.
[and befor anyone asks I do have a R.C and I am very happy with it!]

willk · 25 August 2008, 12:57

I think it's about money. I've noticed some very underpowered new RIBs for sale, for example a 6.5m Humber with a 90hp Opti. The extra 2k needed to make a decent package can sway a certain type of buyer. Those in the know will buy up.

Redbay make a heavy hull and rate their 6.1m (their baby) to 175hp, the 6.5m to 225hp. So no fear of litigation there then!

jyasaki · 25 August 2008, 18:52

Personally, I think it's a question of liability; i.e. protecting the manufacturer by protecting the buyer from himself.

Rating a hull for X number of horsepower doesn't mean that is what will be on it going out the door. The buyer can always opt for an adequate engine within his price range.

jky

Bigmuz7 · 25 August 2008, 19:03

I think its a bit about experience as well. A poor marriage of a max HP engine on an imbalanced or poorly fitted hull can lead to all sorts of handling problems, one of the worst being chine walking. Perhaps through shared experiences, peeps opt for being a bit conservative rather than pushing the envelope of what their hull can handle, in order to avert potential problems.

Cookee · 27 August 2008, 09:42

Our six metre boat will take up to a 150 and the 770, which is eight metres overall is rated to 250, although we would be prepared to build one for the new Verado 300 if someone wanted it! That would cruise at 65 - 70mph with a top speed in the upper 70's

GRAHAM SOMERS · 27 August 2008, 12:55

The reason behind this is that for the past 10 years all RIBs over 2.5 metres have to comply to a New EU Standard ( RCD ). Based on the length of boat x beam, weight etc and chambers a standard formula will give 1: Max engine 2: Max engine weight, 3: Max persons, 4: Max weight in the boat. This is now displayed on a plate on all boats as well as a serial number which must be fitted on the transom. The serial number will give Country of Manufacturer, Month and Year of Make etc.This Standard covers all types of boats and was brought in to harmonise the Market & make boating safe for all.

Simon B · 27 August 2008, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

Our six metre boat will take up to a 150 and the 770, which is eight metres overall is rated to 250, although we would be prepared to build one for the new Verado 300 if someone wanted it! That would cruise at 65 - 70mph with a top speed in the upper 70's

Cookee,

Is there a dental disclaimer absolving B-Shark of any claims relating to loosening of fillings, eyeballs and any uncontrolled breasts that may endanger the craft or become a hazard to marine navigation!?

Stoo · 29 August 2008, 06:03

I just posted a picture of a friends new 5.4m Bombard in another thread. When he was shopping for the boat, the dealer recommended a 60 4-stroke. My friend asked my what I thought and I told him I thought it would be WAY underpowered especially considering that we wants to take 4 divers out. He settled on the 75, but now wishes he had put the 90 on it... the max. rating.

When we went back to the dealer to order the 75, the dealer 'fessed up that he thought that that was a good idea and that the reason he had suggested the 60 was simply because he had it in stock and wanted rid of it. I think I would have found a new dealer at that point as he clearly had his own interest ahead of his customers...

So getting to the original question, I suspect it's partly the weight thing, but also the economics... It's always going to be easier to sell a less expensive boat than a more expensive boat, especially to a novice boater!

(Personally, I could never see the point of buying anything less than the max. rated, but that's just me!)

Cookee · 29 August 2008, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRAHAM SOMERS

The reason behind this is that for the past 10 years all RIBs over 2.5 metres have to comply to a New EU Standard ( RCD ). Based on the length of boat x beam, weight etc and chambers a standard formula will give 1: Max engine 2: Max engine weight, 3: Max persons, 4: Max weight in the boat. This is now displayed on a plate on all boats as well as a serial number which must be fitted on the transom. The serial number will give Country of Manufacturer, Month and Year of Make etc.This Standard covers all types of boats and was brought in to harmonise the Market & make boating safe for all.

Well I'm afraid nobody told me about that clause in the RCD. I could be wrong and so could the surveyor that does our CE work, but to my knowledge the way that the maximum HP (it's actually really usefully listed as KW not HP) is that the boat goes through some tests (they vary depending on the category) with the maximum HP on the boat and it is then approved for that HP.

Therefore if I wanted to put a 350 SCI Verado on one of our boats it would be a simple question of doing some tests at sea and proving it was strong enough to cope with the power and weight of the engine, changing the plate on the back and selling it.

Poly · 29 August 2008, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

Well I'm afraid nobody told me about that clause in the RCD. I could be wrong and so could the surveyor that does our CE work, but to my knowledge the way that the maximum HP (it's actually really usefully listed as KW not HP) is that the boat goes through some tests (they vary depending on the category) with the maximum HP on the boat and it is then approved for that HP.

Cookee I'm no expert but I think (from reading the MAIB report on the Abersoch accident a while ago) there are two ways to show compliance either you go down the mathematical formula route (described in some ISO document) as Graham outlined OR you demonstrate compliance by actual physical testing.

Kernow Buoy · 29 August 2008, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL

My 6m Ribtec is rated for twin 60s or a 150.

That's odd, the 5.85 I've just picked up is max rated to 120, the 535 however, a considerably smaller boat is rated to 90.

Rigaud · 29 August 2008, 15:24

My Bombard Exlorer 6.0 is rated to 120hp and I have a 115hp 2-stroke but it is a 1998. It goes like hell with a cleaver 23"

Bigmuz7 · 29 August 2008, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

I could be wrong and so could the surveyor that does our CE work, but to my knowledge the way that the maximum HP is that the boat goes through some tests (they vary depending on the category) with the maximum HP on the boat and it is then approved for that HP.

So its a marine surveyor who is reponsible for determining the ultimate power capabilities of a hull ? He comes to your yard, ticks some boxes and gives you a plate (so to speak) to stick on the back ?

CJL · 29 August 2008, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kernow

That's odd, the 5.85 I've just picked up is max rated to 120, the 535 however, a considerably smaller boat is rated to 90.

Original UK built 585's are rated higher than the later UK and South African built ones.

Kernow Buoy · 30 August 2008, 07:25

[QUOTE=CJL;261638] Original UK built 585's are rated higher than the later UK and South African built ones. [/QUOT

Any idea when they changed? the one I've bought is a 95 or 96. Have to say it looks a lot of rib to be restricted to 120.

Mollers · 30 August 2008, 08:47

[QUOTE=Kernow;261656]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL

Original UK built 585's are rated higher than the later UK and South African built ones. [/QUOT

Any idea when they changed? the one I've bought is a 95 or 96. Have to say it looks a lot of rib to be restricted to 120.

Was it involved in the Dunkirk evacuations?