Tornado...moving production abroad.

[RIVA]

its only a questin because to me personly it makes no diffrance at all were some thing is made .

most of the high value life jackets we all were are chinese and lets face it thats the thing you realy need to work right first time

does it actualy matter were something is made , you have the same warrantys and course of redrese dont you ?

the v.w. plant in the chek republic is the best in the world

so is the bmw factory in africa

or are we saying that things made in america , europe , africa , are better than some wer else

thoughts please or is it just me

[Tim M]

Crewsaver are made in this country....

[GuyP]

Originally Posted by RIVA

or are we saying that things made in america , europe , africa , are better than some wer else

No - Only that things made in Britain are better than those made elsewhere!

In theory, as long as the majority of the profit is retained in the UK and quality control and customer service is high, I see nothing wrong with offshoring production. We're seeing this shift across all industrial and market sectors. In fact the savings made from offshoring production can be fed back in to better customer service.

However, I also think it's important to retain small manufacturing business in this country, especially in coastal communities, which have been hit hard over the last few decades (fishing and high housing costs etc).

[RIVA]

Just so you know, we have stood in the life jacket factory, when we were in china for the shanghi boat show this year and we defiantly saw all the brands being made. Evan the labelling machine making the badges: thumbs:

We also saw the tornado 5.5 at the show.

From the things we saw being made and the ribs we saw being made in china I think the quality issue is a load of crap

If the raw component is the same i.e. matt, gel, and you train the operative whets the problem.

So scorpion, Greece
Rib craft u.s.
Ballistic s.a.
Parker. Poland

Just as a game to play name the u.k. built ribs that make over 35 boats a year and see if you can name 5 companys

1 humber
2
3
4
5

if you have any doubts we bought some small tenders to evaluate just put an f 25 and f 40 on them. from what we have seen so far they are very and I stress very well made , and they would rank above the quality of many European brands , as shows by there sales levels against Avon and zodiac in the u.s. and the Chinese ones are slightly more $

[GuyP]

Originally Posted by RIVA

From the things we saw being made and the ribs we saw being made in china I think the quality issue is a load of crap

Agree - There's no reason why the quality of offshore products can't be high.

Originally Posted by RIVA

Just as a game to play name the u.k. built ribs that make over 35 boats a year and see if you can name 5 companys

1 humber
2
3
4
5

By volume I'd say

1. Avon
2. Humber
3. Ribcraft
4. Delta
5. Redbay?

Originally Posted by RIVA

So scorpion, Greece
Rib craft u.s.
Ballistic s.a.
Parker. Poland

My understanding is that Ballistic and Parker are produced overseas purely to take advantageof labour market arbitrage (i.e. cheaper labour costs), where as Ribcraft moved to the USA (and set up as a seperate entity there), as the US government will only buy boats from US producers.

[RIVA]

you can take avon and red bay out as not uk and not over 35 .delta i am pritty sure wont do 35 p.a.

i say this because wilst at the evinrude confrance last week ( in monaco ) yes boats are going up next year to pay for the hotel bill my self and mr solent ribs sat down over a pizza and were playing this game

so u.k . and over 35 is the criteria

just see if you can get to 5

[GuyP]

Originally Posted by RIVA

you can take avon and red bay out as not uk

Redbay are Northern Ireland, so must count.

Aren't Avon still built in Wales?? (even the 3 metre tender ribs must count here!)

[RIVA]

Avon are French , owned by zodiac and component feed by zodiac hulls tubes , rib bay 35 is quite a figure ask the question I think you will find the answer is they don’t ,

there is lots of talk about rib craft , going to the u.s. totally allegedly( this is only here say and I have no basis for it ) only industry people saying they will produce u.s. and import back to the uk in the future .

I will help ones you can have Humber, Tornado for now, rib craft for now

[codprawn]

Avon may be owned by the Frnch now but I can assure you their factory is still in Llanelli and seems as busy as ever. The leisure boats are moulded in France but the tubes are made in Wales and they are then assembled here. The commercial craft are entirely British and still take some beating!!!

I agree that in theory the quality shouldn't differ much anywhere in the world BUT the Chinese are better suited to mass production. Boats by their very nature are handmade to a large degree. The best fibreglass hulls are still hand laid and is a bit of an art as is tube making.

Even boats made where the labour is dirt cheap tend not to be that cheap themsleves - look at the stunning Nordhavn's for example or the Cheoy Lee boats. Prices make your eyes water!!!

[RIVA]

so they are not made uk then ? or is that just me being thick if the hulls are french

35 comercial avons ?

rules of the game again, uk built not assembled and over 35

[codprawn]

The hulls - which are quite a small cost of a RIB are shipped in from France - the rest is British. Avon make far more than 35 commercial boats a year - in fact they must be busy as there are at least 3 local boatyards I know who assemble commercial RIBs for Avon when they need the extra capacity. All the parts are shipped from the factory and put together under Avon's beady eye.

[RIVA]

now codders , i dont want to get into it here but if your so sure about that would you fancy a little wager on it ????

or would you like to go and do some reserch first i m quite happy to acept avon if its over 35 or a average of 2.9 boats per month
u.k. built not assembled ( i stress again totaly uk built )


and the last time i was there it was not !

[codprawn]

I have to be honest I haven't been around the factory for quite some time now but as I have seen at least 8 boats being fitted out/finished by other boatyards for them I would have thought they were pretty busy.

I will have to try to catch up with a bloke I know who works there - he should be able to tell me what they are like these days.

From what I can gather they are only interested in Military stuff these days. That could be true as they seem to totally ignore the normal commercial sector and don't even try to sell boats - unless it's zodiac who have them by the balls???

[RIVA]

come on codders , does dave get into this compatition or not

[codprawn]

Of course - forgot about Picton - yes they build quite a few boats and I KNOW they are home built - wether or not they hit the 35 number I don't lnow.

[Jimbo]

Halmatic?
Solent Ribs? Kevin said to me the other day they were building numbers around that order.

Where are Osprey's built these days - not sure? Also are XS Ribs not UK Built, they push out a fair few boats. Leeway's are UK built, don't think up to the 35 a year mark. Cougars? Shakespeares? Not sure on numbers for any of those.

[Endeavour]

which hulls are fletcher boats building for AVON then?

[RIVA]

lee says he is just there , youve fond number 5 on the list

the others mentioned are way of those numbers

halmatic 35 do you realy think ?

[havener]

Think you will find Delta are well over 35, considering the military and SOLAS spec craft / FCR's they produce.

Of course, they may not be able to own up to all the military builds they do.. :-)
(You ain't seen them....right!)

[jace]

Hi All

Not posted for a while so apologies, this post was pointed out to me so I had to reply.

Originally Posted by RIVA

there is lots of talk about rib craft , going to the u.s. totally allegedly( this is only here say and I have no basis for it ) only industry people saying they will produce u.s. and import back to the uk in the future .

It’s totally false that we have plans to move Ribcraft’s production outside the UK. We are committed to building in the UK and I can’t ever see that changing. Ribcraft USA look after the Americas and is a separate product that’s US made, the same applies.

Originally Posted by RIVA

its only a questin because to me personly it makes no diffrance at all were some thing is made .

does it actualy matter were something is made , you have the same warrantys and course of redrese dont you ?

Riva are you pushing the point about why you don’t care where you’re Ribs made for some reason I wonder?? Hmmm?

Cheers All

Jason