Tornado...moving production abroad. - Page 3

RIVA · 09 November 2006, 13:55

no mate , my cars not made here , or my computer , or my outboards ,in fact its hard to think what is

you need to tell a engine supplyer not to tell everybody this then ??

codprawn · 09 November 2006, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

no mate , my cars not made here , or my computer , or my outboards ,

you need to tell a engine supplyer not to tell everybody this then ??

To be honest it's not something to be proud of.

Buy a car made in the UK and the people in the UK then have more money to buy things like boats from you!!!

It is common sense really but so few people in Britain realise it. Even worse when government depts do it. Go to Italy the Police cars are mainly Fiats - in Germany they are BMWs or VWs - in France they use their own cars. What does Britain do? Buy anything they can and to hell with the result. Obviously with outboards there is no choice but when you DO have a choice why not buy local stuff?

I chose Raymarine beause it is good stuff and it's British. Most people wouldn't even give it a 2nd thought - which is a lot of what's wrong with this country. I don't think there is anywhere on Earth as unpatriotic as Britain these days.

RIVA · 09 November 2006, 14:12

what a load of crap its a globle market , and any country has the right to free trade ? it makes no diffrance at all were anything is made , so go through everything you own codders if you feel that loyal and throw it away if it says not made uk ,

a naked man walking through a welsh street springs to mind !!

ray marine british made ?? are you sure what portsmouth is used for now

Lostboy · 09 November 2006, 15:24

I think you need to look a little more deeply into what Raymarine actually do at their Portsmouth site.

Biggles · 09 November 2006, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

what a load of crap its a globle market , and any country has the right to free trade ? it makes no diffrance at all were anything is made , so go through everything you own codders if you feel that loyal and throw it away if it says not made uk ,

It does have a lot to do with balance of payments.
But who cares, most people are going to leave the country as soon as they can anyway and have absolutely no loyalty to GB LTD. And the other thing is its very hard to buy anything British, and most things that are British are over priced and crap anyway. Thats how the foreign stuff got here in the first place. I would like to buy British, but that is very difficult to do now. But it isn't something we should totally ignore. I think the best we can do now is buy Foreign stuff actually made in Britain.

RIVA · 09 November 2006, 15:39

lost boy your point is

can you remeber the out cry in the local news paper not so long ago about portsmouth .

Raymarine look overseas
Sep 2005 p107 (0.35 pages)
Category: News / Electrics & electronics
Author: Tim Bartlett
Description: Waypoints
Raymarine announce that they will be closing down their UK manufacturing operation and outsourcing to specialist firms in Mexico and eastern Europe

http://www.citywire.co.uk/News/NewsA...ersionID=76408

codprawn · 09 November 2006, 16:09

I am well aware Raymarine are now outsourcing abroad but it's still a British company - better than another company where it is ALL abroad!!!

There are plenty opf British products that are equally as good as the foreign stuff - washing machines - dishwashers - tumble driers etc. All mine are British - made in Britain and working just fine.

My audio equipment also happens to be British and it's the best in the world - and you don't need to pay a fortune for it either - of course to the ignorant man in the street they prob haven't even heard of them and think Jap is best.....

Then again i am just insane and the thought of keeping people in work in the UK is crazy when some nice foreign person could have the money instead......

RIVA · 09 November 2006, 16:20

who is the parent company ,ray marine or raytheon ,hq new hampshire i thinks .

yes some british stuff is great but we have to be realistic , lets face it we all know were hyplon comes from and it aint british ,
as long as we acept we live in a globl econamy and the money flowes both ways whats the problem .

can you remeber the u.s. protcting there steel industry .
didnt we as a exporter object G.B. that is , cant have it both ways free trade or not ?

codprawn · 09 November 2006, 16:30

Raymarine aquired Raytheon - not the other way around. It was a management buyout and the CEO is British along with most of the directors.

Quite strange to see the headquarters is in Hampshire and the Yank division is in New Hampshire!!!

floater · 09 November 2006, 17:45

Hi ive watched this thread with intrest

i ve worked in the electronics industry for over 20 years (not marine i add) but i have seen the migration from uk to Japan to Korea/Tawain and now China, the quality of each country took a while to develop to an aceptable standard except China they seem to have hit the floor running !

the cost is exeptional

2 years ago we were buying a product for between 600-700 pounds selling between £1000-1200 we did a deal with manufactor and sold at lower cost, but no takers as product was cheaper so not as good ?(perception) ended up with over stock, dumped to market at cost £500.00 (so cheap that you had to try ) sold out in weeks , resourced from China same/better product sell for less than 500 and selling thousands per year at good GPM

they are good at electronics but metal work and paint finish is not good enough yet

Andy

Lostboy · 10 November 2006, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

lost boy your point is

I wasn't disagreeing with you ffs!! I was agreeing with you and suggesting that Codders checks his facts!

RIVA · 10 November 2006, 11:02

sorry my mistake , i just glanced at it ,

robineff · 11 November 2006, 01:33

I'm old enough to remember when the monthly Balance of Payments figures were eagerly awaited and were seriously dissected by the media. They were, in effect, the UK's monthly bank statement and are every bit as important as our own monthly statements.
If you are clever enough to find these figures nowadays [because they're so bad they tend to get hidden] you will find that we are losing on trade, something in the order of £4.5 to 5.0 billion per month - and if you say £150million a DAY, it sounds even worse.
Now we all know that if we are personally 'in the red' we have to do something PDQ - either earn more money, spend less of it or - which seems to be the preferred option - flog off some possessions to cover the shortfall.
The political/commercial elite are terribly proud of our 'free trade' posture in international commerce because it justifies the continual flood of British businesses and assets being sold overseas to [partially] balance the books. Sadly, the day eventually comes when all Granny's silver and Uncle Jack's pictures have been sold and you're still not making ends meet. The house is mortgaged up to the hilt to the extent that it in fact belongs to men in suits.
At this point we are in deep, deep trouble..
Tragically, there are those who still believe - as evidenced above - that it doesn't matter if we're losing money hand over fist but they are outnumbered by those of the empowered who have conned us into believing this because they dare not admit publically that they haven't the slightest idea how to stop the ever growing and accelerating snowball.
The absence of purchasing loyalty goes back a long time and is deeply rooted.
The Hampshire Police force have scarcely bought a British car in 30 years and our ambulance fleet, despite the fact that world class - and famous - vans are built here on our doorstep, carry a 3-pointed Star on their grilles!
In a week's time I shall, God willing, become a Grandfather and I wonder what sort of country the little mite will grow up in.

Robin

Nos4r2 · 11 November 2006, 07:35

Having been in close contact with a fair number of bikes made in China I wouldn't buy one-every one I've seen has had bad quality castings, tolerances and electrics. The materials are low grade and corrode very quickly too-and these are on engines that are a direct copy of the Japanese ones.

I did think about buying one of the yam 50 copy outboards for about 30 seconds until I remembered this. I'm a firm believer in getting what you pay for.

RIVA · 11 November 2006, 09:22

I'm old enough to remember when the monthly Balance of Payments figures were eagerly awaited and were seriously dissected by the media. They were, in effect, the UK's monthly bank statement and are every bit as important as our own monthly statements.
If you are clever enough to find these figures nowadays [because they're so bad they tend to get hidden] you will find that we are losing on trade, something in the order of £4.5 to 5.0 billion per month - and if you say £150million a DAY, it sounds even worse.
Now we all know that if we are personally 'in the red' we have to do something PDQ - either earn more money, spend less of it or - which seems to be the preferred option - flog off some possessions to cover the shortfall.
The political/commercial elite are terribly proud of our 'free trade' posture in international commerce because it justifies the continual flood of British businesses and assets being sold overseas to [partially] balance the books. Sadly, the day eventually comes when all Granny's silver and Uncle Jack's pictures have been sold and you're still not making ends meet. The house is mortgaged up to the hilt to the extent that it in fact belongs to men in suits.
At this point we are in deep, deep trouble..
Tragically, there are those who still believe - as evidenced above - that it doesn't matter if we're losing money hand over fist but they are outnumbered by those of the empowered who have conned us into believing this because they dare not admit publically that they haven't the slightest idea how to stop the ever growing and accelerating snowball.
The absence of purchasing loyalty goes back a long time and is deeply rooted.
The Hampshire Police force have scarcely bought a British car in 30 years and our ambulance fleet, despite the fact that world class - and famous - vans are built here on our doorstep, carry a 3-pointed Star on their grilles!
In a week's time I shall, God willing, become a Grandfather and I wonder what sort of country the little mite will grow up in.

Robin

This is all sounding great until you relies that in the square mile your figures are so small they pale into insignificance with trade per day (these figures are not included in the above)

im going to give Norway as a example one of the richest economies on earth , and my Norwegian friends freely admit they actually manufacturer almost didaly squat compared to there overall economy and trade I think its almost 0.2%

The reason is you don’t need to make things and put it in a box to earn money!!! Or do you?

It’s called a service economy (estate agents, solicitors’ dentist, farmers / supermarkets or specilist companys ) god doesn’t get me on the farmers!!

And the money you earn goes into the shops and taxes to keep the world going round

What is the problem with this

countrys change theier focus we used to make things now we import more than we make , is there starving people on the streets , have we got a deserlat country because were all working on a production line makeing things in china ( because you have to make something to make money )
the fact is and im sure the older amongst us will disagree. todays world if you are a have!! is far better than it was 100 years ago when the guy in the steel mill or spinning the cotton for a living thought about how he was going to feed his family not how much petrol he was putting in his boat ??

Shaggy · 11 November 2006, 14:40

Yes a golden age, most in the UK have more money to spend on luxury items these days but will it last?

I work in IT and nearly every day I see more jobs going off shore, and yes these are service industry jobs supposedly Britain's bread and butter.

Not only IT and Call Centres staff are affected, the local NHS trust who are in debt to the tune of £56M have announced the offshoring of the transcription of medical notes to India with a loss of approx 100 local jobs, I doubt they will find another job paying up to £16,000 pa very easily in West Cornwall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

is there starving people on the streets , have we got a deserlat country because were all working on a production line makeing things in china

Any decline will take a bit longer than the last 10 years of off-shoring, perhaps we should have this conversation in 30 years time, I believe then the impact (if any?) will be more apparent.

Shaggy

codprawn · 11 November 2006, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Yes a golden age, most in the UK have more money to spend on luxury items these days but will it last?

I work in IT and nearly every day I see more jobs going off shore, and yes these are service industry jobs supposedly Britain's bread and butter.

Not only IT and Call Centres staff are affected, the local NHS trust who are in debt to the tune of £56M have announced the offshoring of the transcription of medical notes to India with a loss of approx 100 local jobs, I doubt they will find another job paying up to £16,000 pa very easily in West Cornwall.
Any decline will take a bit longer than the last 10 years of off-shoring, perhaps we should have this conversation in 30 years time, I believe then the impact (if any?) will be more apparent.

Shaggy

Couldn't agree more - this wonderful government of ours decided in 2000 that there was a shortage of skilled IT workers - so they introduced a fast track visa scheme to get them to come over here. In ONE year there were over 30,000 and that was the governments own figures!!! This went on for about 4 years - the people coming over were NOT highly skilled - just cheap - the vast majority from India. 5 years on the rates STILL have not recovered!!!

In a way what RIVA says about a service economy is true but many of these service jobs are low skilled and lowly paid.

The Garfish · 11 November 2006, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I see more jobs going off shore

yorr rite shaggy mee owld shagg.

i woz torkin bollix wiv de gaffir ov dat jtb mareen las weak. hee sed hee woz gonner sakk orl de nobburs dat werkt forr im an gett a cuppul ov yewcraniuns inn cuz that woz a lott cheeper an didunt keap skivin orf forr a craffty fagg.

de werld iz gowin madd. evun de lowcal chinnky restoront az gott powlish wayters.

solidarnosh comraids ..........wiv nooduls

gArf

robineff · 14 November 2006, 00:55

I take your point, The Riva, about the City and the huge sums it generates both at home and overseas - it's the part of the export figures which used to known as 'invisibles' and is an important part of the equation. We do, of course, buy in a lot of invisibles, e.g. financing UK projects through foreign banks or insuring buildings through foreign underwriters. The point is that, even with these service revenues added into the equation, we are STILL losing £150million a DAY!
The Norwegians, in their infinite wisdom, decided that they did not wish to join the EU, thank you very much, and so save huge sums which they do not have to give to Brussels. They have also used their oil and gas bounty wisely and have the fish in their own waters to themselves - or charge foreigners a great deal of money to come and catch them!

Robin

Biggles · 14 November 2006, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by robineff

I take your point, The Riva, about the City and the huge sums it generates both at home and overseas - it's the part of the export figures which used to known as 'invisibles' and is an important part of the equation. We do, of course, buy in a lot of invisibles, e.g. financing UK projects through foreign banks or insuring buildings through foreign underwriters. The point is that, even with these service revenues added into the equation, we are STILL losing £150million a DAY!
The Norwegians, in their infinite wisdom, decided that they did not wish to join the EU, thank you very much, and so save huge sums which they do not have to give to Brussels. They have also used their oil and gas bounty wisely and have the fish in their own waters to themselves - or charge foreigners a great deal of money to come and catch them!

Robin

Sensible.

Wish we'd done that.