Total failure retubing the Liveboat "Seeker"

[HOGE]

At the beginning of this year our Dutch Lifeboat "seeker" has had a complete revision. The polyester has been fully restaurated and new state of the art equipment has been mounted on the Seeker.

We had also gotten new tubes with an ingenius system of Inner and Outer Tubes from the companie geminiindustries.co.uk, we all had high expectations from it.
The Inner Tubes could easily be repaired or replaced.

The PVC material would be much stronger than the original Hypalon.



The PVC Tubes looks astonishing at the beginning, only thing you should not be doing is sailing with it, then it goes wrong. Clearly you can see the flaps, the only glued part which holds the tubes in place on the hull. The weak lifethreatening construction by Gemini Marine Industries Ltd.

Costs of these tubes, including fitting: 2800 Pounds.


But in contridiction of our high expectations the whole system appeared to be worthless. The boat was not air and water tight and time after time the inner tubes damaged and became leak, the size of the inner tubes was to big, so it got damaged on the fauldings. The glue did not last very long either, after a while it losened everywhere. We tried to fix it on directions of Gemini Marine Industries Ltd. but the leaks popped up quicker than we could repair them so that in times of alarm we have to pump the water out of the boat and the air into the tubes which could cost lifes, because of the time needed.


Repairing the inner tubes was not easy, and a six hour job!

We regret the day we decided to buy these kind of tubes. And after a few months we reversed that by replacing the tubes with normal Hypalon kind.

We were forced to pay antoher 3000 pounds to replace the tubes properly by a company in Holland:




kind of a sad view





We could dissemble the tubes within two minutes, kind of lifethreadening...


Look at the photo galery at:

klikkerdeklik

Henk

[Nos4r2]

Christ.

Are Gemini Industries really saying that PVC is better than Hypalon?!

[HOGE]

Yes, they told us that it has f.e. less wearing out comparing to hypalon, but we experiance that it cracks apart sooner, it's deforming as well. And the gluing is difficult.

On the picture you see his sun living in Belgium who's gluing the tubes to the hull. He just fasten the flaps, not the tubes. It took him only a few houres. The man in Amsterdam, Andrew Hobson of HIBS from Amsterdam is gluing for day's now, that can make a diffrend too...

Henk Wijga

Rescue Organisation Gooi- en Eeemmeer

[Downhilldai]

I'm yet to hear anything good about Gemini Industries toobs.

[ian parkes]

I guess Gemini indutries are different to to the Gemini boats that no longer seem to have a UK dealer .

[Nos4r2]

To clarify-Gemini Marine Industries are NOT the same company as Gemini Inflatables


This isn't the 1st time I've heard something shockingly bad about Gemini Industries either.

[HOGE]

we are talking about gemini MARINE industries ltd, the owner is Jack Bowran.

His sun living in Belgium did the gluing: Rick Bowran.

At thursday the tubes were glued and we waited till saterdayevening to sail. Sunday the first tube got leak out of nowere. There arrives the liveboat: field with water and withe empty tubes: were gonna save you! Yeah, wright!

We have to do it all by ourselfs, they won't come for repears. Rick is a truckdriver, to buisy, no time.
An understatemend: it was not a succes.

Henk

[Nos4r2]

Off topic a bit Hoge but how does that break back trailer under the lifeboat work with twin axles?

[HOGE]

It is very stable, but in the turn you have to be ware of make a wide one: the wheels are to far at the back of the trailer. We must adjust them more to the front, easy to do, they are adjusable.
You can loungh the boat by flipping the rear part of the trailer from f.e. a dyke. Only the behind wheel stays on the ground, the rest goes up, under the weight of the boat, no pr.






Henk

[wavelength]

Not a KNRM boat then. Where does this boat operate? Is it a Reddings brigade boat or another organisation. I spend a lot of time in Holland (and also at sea off Holland) as my daughter is the captain of a windfarm boat out of IJmuiden.

[HOGE]

Originally Posted by wavelength

Not a KNRM boat then. Where does this boat operate? Is it a Reddings brigade boat or another organisation. I spend a lot of time in Holland (and also at sea off Holland) as my daughter is the captain of a windfarm boat out of IJmuiden.

I'l will gladly explain wat we are doing and who we are, but this topic is about a boat who should last long:

A GEMINI Boat, with Inner Tubes, is technically right

The inner tubes remain 99.9% air tight throughout their 15 or so year Life.

Only metals are 100% airtight

P.V.C FOILS are quick to glue (when done correctly), it is a chemical bond, not a

contact adhesive which is used to construct Hypalon products. The life of a chemical bonded

tube,is well in excess of 20 yrs.

sound like other tubes then we got from them... :-[

[HOGE]

we disassemblyd the tubes in minutes:

[HOGE]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

To clarify-Gemini Marine Industries are NOT the same company as Gemini Inflatables


This isn't the 1st time I've heard something shockingly bad about Gemini Industries either.

To bad we didn't meet before, could have saved us some money!

Gr,
Henk

[paul tilley]

nice new hypalon tubes now ???

[HOGE]

yes this one's just laying there to be gluid...

Henk

[ribraff]

Can you tell us who built your new hypalon tube?

[HOGE]

Originally Posted by HOGE

Yes, they told us that it has f.e. less wearing out comparing to hypalon, but we experiance that it cracks apart sooner, it's deforming as well. And the gluing is difficult.

On the picture you see his sun living in Belgium who's gluing the tubes to the hull. He just fasten the flaps, not the tubes. It took him only a few houres. The man in Amsterdam, Andrew Hobson of HIBS from Amsterdam is gluing for day's now, that can make a diffrend too...

Henk Wijga

Rescue Organisation Gooi- en Eeemmeer

See my posting before.
This is the companie who also does the repearing for the KNRM: Andrew Hobson. Also English, but he's allright... ;-)

gr Henk

[MarkM]

It is scandalous that something like this happens. As a Ribber you're depending on the advice and expertise of others.

[Matt]

As an individual you're dependant on researching and developing your own opinion.

[Poly]

Did you agree the terms and conditions of supply in advance? Unless agreed otherwise (which may be unenforcable) then goods sold in the UK (and I assume that this applies to sales from the UK to other European countries) must:

* Conform to any description on the packaging or advertising
* Be of satisfactory quality, in that they will last for a reasonable amount of time (with a consideration for cost) are in good condition and safe to use
* Be fit for the purpose they were designed for, taking into account the advertised use
* Match any sample used to sell the goods

As I understand it this legislation applies even if it is a business to business transaction rather than business to consumer. (Although the remedies are different).

You need to formally reject the goods (I suggest in writing), and therefore request a refund. Beyond that you would probably be into legal action - which whilst relatively straightforward in the English Courts is possibly too complex to be worthwhile from overseas in a foreign language.

Of course if you bought the goods from an agent in the netherlands this is all irrelevant although you may have similar legislation. [Edit: if legally he is acting as an Agent, not a distributor or reseller, then the manufacturer would be liable - responsibility lies with the person you paid for the goods.]