Towing without an additional test - consultation

[rik_elliott]

Hi all. We all do a lot of towing and so I thought this government consultation might be of interest. The HGV side makes up most of the document, but there is an interesting section on towing with a car and the potential to scrap the current test.


What do you think? Personally I think the current situation is confusing for newbies and I expect many tow illegally. I'm all for a scrapping of the test, or integration of it into new driving tests so that everyone has it as standard as they did in the past.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consul...-an-extra-test

[Jon Tallis]

Given the significant differences between driving a car and towing a large trailer I think it's entirely appropriate that people need to demonstrate competence before being allowed to do so. I agree the current situation is a little confusing (only a little) but in principle a further test before being allowed to tow a larger trailer is a good idea. The current limit of 750kg (ignoring the more complicated "vehicle plus trailer" category) seems a sensible break-point to me.

[diver 1]

Seems a very odd policy that the government are proposing there. I would have thought an incentive scheme for more driving test examiners may be more prudent rather than relax already very lax road safety standards particularly with regard to trailers and caravans. I tend to think it would be a good idea to go the other direction and perhaps consider introducing re-testing of all drivers every 10 years or so. I certainly know a few people that lack the skills or confidence to re-sit a driving test. May help take a few drivers off the road and improve the skillset of the rest.

[TmMorris]

It's an interesting one. Personally, I'm of the view that the post 97 system is almost too lenient. It still permits some pretty heavy or cumbersome stuff to be towed without checking that the person driving has a scooby as to what they are doing.

In an ideal world where all youngsters are given the time of day by either their parents or employers to teach the basic skills, or they all go online and find tutorials then go and spend time practicing etc then going back to pre 97 would seem logical and would save the taxpayer money.

But I don't think we live in that world and that there are plenty of sub mid 40s blokes who would hitch something up and just head off without ever contemplating any of the logical risks to others or self learning the basic skills. I don't think that in 1997 the average bloke somehow genetically altered into a superior being to those before and given how many over 45's around the Cotswolds get stuck with caravans, I'm almost of the view that everyone pre 97 should sit the test rather than lifting it. it would be an indignity for most of us but improve all our lives if many of the incompetent among us were dealt with one way of another.

Post 97 you still seem able to tow a modest RIB without sitting a test anyway don't you? From what I can gather, you just need to juggle your 3500kg MAM between the car and trailer?


Licences issued from 1 January 1997

If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:

-drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM

-tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it’s loaded.

You have to pass the car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

Licences issued before 1 January 1997

If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 you’re usually allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8,250kg MAM.

View your driving licence information to check.

You’re also allowed to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

I don't think we want to clog the exam room with people just wanting to tow a camping trailer but I do think it makes sense to ensure that people who wish to tow a big boat, caravan or other such 'obstacle' have been brought up to some form of minimum standard or understanding of the basics.

If you look at the number of people on the water who have absolutely zero understanding of their boat, haven't bothered doing any courses or taking time to learn then it seems logical to assume that those same type of people would treat trailering the same way.

[Pikey Dave]

Personally I think the current system is a mess. The most difficult (IMHO) thing about towing is manoeuvring, particularly reversing. I’ve seen plenty of people with “grandfather” towing rights, make a complete hash of reversing to the point of being dangerous. Bizarrely, the current rules allow you to tow a small trailer without passing a test, & anyone who has ever towed knows that the smaller the trailer, the more difficult it is to reverse. Generally I’m against regulation & overbearing enforcement, but personally I think you should at least have to prove competency to tow ANY trailer.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

Post 97 you still seem able to tow a modest RIB without sitting a test anyway don't you? From what I can gather, you just need to juggle your 3500kg MAM between the car and trailer?

That’s one of the anomalies though - it encourages post 97 drivers to pick light, less suitable tow vehicles to juggle the numbers.

Other anomalies - my mother who hasn’t even driven a car for 15 years can legally drive 7.5 tonner with a trailer! My wife with a pre 97 license but not experience can tow trailers that I cannot and my son when he passed his test some point in the next 12 months with be able to get in the car and tow my boat with zero training or experience the very next day.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Poly

That’s one of the anomalies though - it encourages post 97 drivers to pick light, less suitable tow vehicles to juggle the numbers.

Other anomalies - my mother who hasn’t even driven a car for 15 years can legally drive 7.5 tonner with a trailer! My wife with a pre 97 license but not experience can tow trailers that I cannot and my son when he passed his test some point in the next 12 months with be able to get in the car and tow my boat with zero training or experience the very next day.

Yup. I guess part of the review will be to see how many sweet, little old ladies are taking up trucking and how many children are being let loose without parental guidance etc.

If I recall, when I renewed my license a while back I lost the ability to drive a steam roller?

[Nos4r2]

As someone who spends 6+hours a day on motorways I REALLY don't want the requirement for a test to be removed.
It's only really in the past few years that the abundance of poorly loaded caravans being towed at ridiculous speeds seems to have eased and it's now noticeable that those who obviously don't know what they're doing are in the 40+ age bracket.

The law could do with simplifying, but certainly not removing.

[willk]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

If I recall, when I renewed my license a while back I lost the ability to drive a steam roller?

No more flat out for you so....

[HDAV]

As long as you can still drive a tractor with a gross of 31T at 40kmh on a standard car licence is it really an issue ��???

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/trac...-new-laws-mean

[GuyC]

I think rather than getting rid of the test they should just remove the mandatory requirement to be operating a mobile phone whilst towing a plant trailer behind a Transit tipper.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by GuyC

I think rather than getting rid of the test they should just remove the mandatory requirement to be operating a mobile phone whilst towing a plant trailer behind a Transit tipper.

….whilst eating a Greggs pasty

[Salty Pete]

If you don't have a licence you are an idiot.
If you do have a licence you are a licensed idiot.

[leehebs]

As I understand it, the towing test when it came in helped with demises ofDiving club ribs, as younger members joined a club and older members retired from Diving, you were left with very few who could or wanted to tow the club boat.

I think a lot of it came down to the cost of the towing course, not much change out of £350
Plus 115 for the test. A normal driving test is only £85 in total.

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by HDAV

As long as you can still drive a tractor with a gross of 31T at 40kmh on a standard car licence is it really an issue ��???

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/trac...-new-laws-mean

Living right in the middle of a farming area, it's still quite intimidating seeing a 'kid' trundling an enormous tractor down the road. But it's fair to say that the owner of the machinery, or the person responsible for it, will have made damn sure that they teach the new driver the required skills before letting them loose. Many of the sins and daughters around here learn how to program a tractor when they're very young if that is likely to be their job after school so many will have been learning to operate heavy machinery for maybe as long as 5 years before venturing out on the road. And on top of that they generally operate mostly on D, C and B roads.

Conversely, I could go and hitch something to the back of any old car, bomb down the motorway at 70 and flick it over the central reservation.

I may be free to buy a camping trailer, refuse to grease the bearings, check tyre pressures and then drive at 80 down the A34 until the fishtailing finally achieves the end goal of flipping, spreading duvets and a tent through the air so that I can then spend the rest of the day blocking lane 1, creating a massive tailback while sitting on the barrier, with the wife and kids, wondering why these things always happen to me.

And bizarrely, there's no shortage of blokes who very clearly book this kind of specialist holiday. I don't know how much they pay Thomas Cook for the whole 'Close the A34 and sit on a barrier looking glum' experience but without doubt, it's a tremendously popular form of day trip.

I find myself pondering the logic of letting these specialist holiday makers go about their work with a one ton boat that they're desperate to barrelrole at 80 down a three lane motorway?

I'd love to live in a country where everyone had personal responsibility and used the vast, free resources available to them to simply self educate and took time to practice a skill and respected the welfare of other road users. But I'm not sure we do. There are very clearly a notable number of total idiots out there and sadly, in order for them to at least have some rudimentary programming installed in the hopes that they can function vaguely competently, as per usual the silent and competent majority have to pay a bit of money as well to get the same piece of paper qualifying them to do something they are probably absolutely fine to self educate and learn.

Accidents can happen to all of us but they seem more prevalent among those who don't service their trailers, don't tie their boats down or don't drive at the right sort of speed. And those accidents have a tendency to involve others. I'm not sure that for the convenience of the majority we should take the risk of releasing the few?

[HDAV]

But you don’t need a B+E to Tow a one boat just a really small car with just enough towing capacity to be legal……

Added to that the number of old congers on grandfather rights I would suspect the data may show the current restriction has indact no lowered the incident rate and there for has not made any benefit

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by HDAV

Added to that the number of old congers on grandfather rights….

You’re talking pollacks[emoji6]

[GuyC]

that's a carp joke.

[willk]

Originally Posted by TmMorris

Many of the sins and daughters around here....

Takes me back a few years, that does

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by willk

Takes me back a few years, that does

Good times.