Towing without Brakes ?

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by mister p

Chaps, "buyer beware", once money has changed hands and as such has ownership, what the new owner does with his purchase is his problem. If he chooses to tow a trailer from your drive that has no wheels it is him that is committing the offence not the seller.
...
If you get caught on the road dragging an illegal trailer that you've just bought then you and only you will be prosecuted.

This may sound like common sense, but doesn't seem to actually be the legal position. Unless you have specific legal knowledge to back up your claims, please stop before you inadvertently lead someone into trouble!

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by zurk

its fine. ive towed a 3000 kg 35 ft RV, 4 tires and no brakes with a chevy v8 long bed pickup 4000 miles without any problems. just keep a huge following distance and brake gently. you will feel the trailer push the vehicle and use up your distance. as long as you think of your vehicle as a large train rather than a car it will be ok. drive carefully.

And if you need to stop suddenly because little Johnny has run into the road after his soccer ball? Is it still "fine" then?

This is not good advice. Take 2.

[Erin]

Before this thread gets closed for repeating itself, I'll add another little motoring anecdote that seems morally wrong on the face of it but is legally correct.

Picture the scene; you're teaching your little darling to learn to drive in the family car. You get stopped by an officious pc looking to find some misdemeanour and he asks for proof of insurance. You duly hand over the paperwork and it turns out that little darling wasn't put onto the insurance. The case goes to court and daddy is charged for allowing an uninsured driver to drive his car on the road - fair enough. Now the unfair bit is that offspring loses his/her license too for a year for not having checked with said parent that he/she was on the insurance. Think back to when you learnt. Would you have said to your parents 'I'm not driving that thing until you show me evidence that I'm on the insurance'? I very much doubt it!

[Andy B]

So to clarify,
If you sell a boat on a trailer the seller is responsible for the condition of that trailer even if he has made it clear to the buyer that it is unroadworthy and only to be used as a launch/yard trailer.
Q1
At what point does the sellers responsibly for this trailer end?

Q2
If the buyer removes the boat from my property be it my home, boat yard or barn and then hitches it up to a tow vehicle off of my property, after paying for and taking possession of the boat, are you still liable?
Q3
What rights do you have as a private citizen to stop someone from driving off with said boat once it has become there property?

[Poly]

Andy, the offence is not `letting him tow it away' it is selling it in an unsafe condition. The exception is if you have a reasonably held belief (that you can prove) that it would not be used on the road. So if you take his money without doing something to convince you that it will not be used on the road you are breaking the law.

[Kernow Buoy]

Originally Posted by Erin

Before this thread gets closed for repeating itself, I'll add another little motoring anecdote that seems morally wrong on the face of it but is legally correct.

Picture the scene; you're teaching your little darling to learn to drive in the family car. You get stopped by an officious pc looking to find some misdemeanour and he asks for proof of insurance. You duly hand over the paperwork and it turns out that little darling wasn't put onto the insurance. The case goes to court and daddy is charged for allowing an uninsured driver to drive his car on the road - fair enough. Now the unfair bit is that offspring loses his/her license too for a year for not having checked with said parent that he/she was on the insurance. Think back to when you learnt. Would you have said to your parents 'I'm not driving that thing until you show me evidence that I'm on the insurance'? I very much doubt it!

Sorry don't agree, If the little darling is mature enough to take responsibility for driving a motor vehicle on a public road then said little darling is also mature enough to check they've got insurance.

[C-NUMB]

Originally Posted by Poly

Andy, the offence is not `letting him tow it away' it is selling it in an unsafe condition. The exception is if you have a reasonably held belief (that you can prove) that it would not be used on the road. So if you take his money without doing something to convince you that it will not be used on the road you are breaking the law.

But if in the sales contract there would be clearly stated its a yard trailer, not intended for public roads. Would it then really be a problem for the seller if the buyer decides to tow it away?

[zurk]

Originally Posted by Leapy

And if you need to stop suddenly because little Johnny has run into the road after his soccer ball? Is it still "fine" then?

This is not good advice. Take 2.

then little johnny dies. and he will die the exact same way if the trailer had working brakes. your stopping distance is decreased with brakes not eliminated. you cant stop on a dime regardless.
you can drive carefully and be fine on a one time trip by exercising due care. youre not likely going to crash any more than you would otherwise. by all means repair the brakes later.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by zurk

then little johnny dies. and he will die the exact same way if the trailer had working brakes

Absurd. You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of vehicle dynamics

[ppenman]

I wonder if some of these replies come under the category of encouraging someone to commit an offence. After all, it is an offence in the UK to tow a trailer & boat combo weighing over 750kg if the trailer does not have working brakes.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by C-NUMB

But if in the sales contract there would be clearly stated its a yard trailer, not intended for public roads. Would it then really be a problem for the seller if the buyer decides to tow it away?

Well the law in Britain says yes. You need to believe it won't be used on the road not just you've told someone it shouldn't be used. I don't think you'd convince a court that you honestly believed it wasn't going to be used on the road if he turned up with no other means to get it home. That said, of course cars (and trailers) are sold all the time in unroadworthy condition and prosecutions are very unusual, especially of private sellers.

Originally Posted by Zurk

its fine. ive towed a 3000 kg 35 ft RV, 4 tires and no brakes with a chevy v8 long bed pickup 4000 miles without any problems. just keep a huge following distance and brake gently. you will feel the trailer push the vehicle and use up your distance. as long as you think of your vehicle as a large train rather than a car it will be ok. drive carefully.

Zurk - your advice MAY be appropriate in north america with generally wide straight roads, and very large tow vehicles. I have no idea about the legality in Canada. In Wales (as with most of the UK), where the OP is planning to tow it the roads are narrow and twisty and nobody is claiming it would be legal - there is a good chance he would make the journey unharmed but there is a very real possibility that he gets stopped at a random check, or has a minor accident. The penalties are fairly significant, and could include loosing your license. The consequences of a serious accident could include prison and potentially living with the doubt that for the sake of fixing his breaks he's robbed a family of a loved one.

Perhaps the 'auxiliary engine' in your profile has nothing to do with boats?

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by Poly

Perhaps the 'auxiliary engine' in your profile has nothing to do with boats?

[C-NUMB]

Originally Posted by Poly

Well the law in Britain says yes. You need to believe it won't be used on the road not just you've told someone it shouldn't be used. I don't think you'd convince a court that you honestly believed it wasn't going to be used on the road if he turned up with no other means to get it home. That said, of course cars (and trailers) are sold all the time in unroadworthy condition and prosecutions are very unusual, especially of private sellers.

OK, fair enough. Sounds kind of tricky to sell used trailers that are not road worthy as You might end up in troubles You did not expect...

Over here any trailer intended for roads needs to be type approved, registered(trailers have own plates) and insured. If its braked, you need to do a MOT inspection every second year.

If You want to sell a road unsafe trailer, You will remove the plates. After that You are pretty safe responsibility wise if the next owner does anything stupid with it.
I always considered this pretty controlling attitude toward trailers annoying, but in some cases its maybe not so bad after all.

[Trailer Guy]

Originally Posted by C-NUMB

Over here any trailer intended for roads needs to be type approved, registered(trailers have own plates) and insured. If its braked, you need to do a MOT inspection every second year.

One day....

[mick]

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

One day....

Same with tintents some right sh--e on the rd
and some insures make you have them serviced every year

[paddlers]

Chatting to someone today who said that all road trailers whatever their size have to be braked from next year due to EU ! Anybody heard that ??

[Trailer Guy]

Originally Posted by paddlers

Chatting to someone today who said that all road trailers whatever their size have to be braked from next year due to EU ! Anybody heard that ??

Nah, don't panic, someone's pulling your leg

If you're interested:

Trailer Certification

[paddlers]

That's a bonus!
Thanks.