Tragedy at Padstow - 5 May 2013

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by kerny

Somebody on here or the other thread came up with showing pictures of people struck by props at local Marinas and slipways which I think would be a good idea. Sometimes we need a shock to help stop us from becoming complacent.

Also maybe insurance companies could remind us on our policies documents that the cover would be void if it was found that the accidents was directly caused by not using the KC.

Not being funny Steve but that would give such a get out for them. As others have pointed out there are many boat users who can't practically wear KCs. Fisherman on crab boats for example. Giving insurance firms a get out would be a nightmare. Education and awareness is key in my book.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by kerny

Somebody on here or the other thread came up with showing pictures of people struck by props at local Marinas and slipways which I think would be a good idea. Sometimes we need a shock to help stop us from becoming complacent.

The widespread use of visual shock unfortunately doesn't stop idiots from smoking ... "it won't happen to me"

[Rogue Wave]

Anybody know if the vicrims have nee laid to rest yet?

[kerny]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

Not being funny Steve but that would give such a get out for them. As others have pointed out there are many boat users who can't practically wear KCs. Fisherman on crab boats for example. Giving insurance firms a get out would be a nightmare. Education and awareness is key in my book.

Paul I know what you are saying mate but commercial trawlers out at sea and powerboat users are different argument altogether an insurance company would crawl out of a claim by someone not wearing a KC, just the same as a drunk drivers insurance is void through drink driving. Sharks in water them there insurance companies just like solicitors.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by BogMonster

The widespread use of visual shock unfortunately doesn't stop idiots from smoking ... "it won't happen to me"

Actually in some cases it does: WHO | The impact of pictures on the effectiveness of tobacco warnings

[Observer]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

So the recommendation from MAIB is the kill cord should be worn whenever the engine is in gear, and preferably also when it's running in neutral. I fully agree with that statement.

Let's try and make something positive out of this awful accident, and all of us follow MAIB's recommendation.

I don't. Bad idea to kill the engine if at sea and swapping helmsman.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by Observer

Bad idea to kill the engine if at sea and swapping helmsman.

+1 I won't be doing that

[Boats&Outboards]

I think the point being made is don't try swapping at full chat where you have to remove the kill cord before you can swap places. If you do, incidents like this may well happen

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

[Observer]

Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards

I think the point being made is don't try swapping at full chat where you have to remove the kill cord before you can swap places. If you do, incidents like this may well happen

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

Well yes, obviously. But the MAIB bulletin says "Stop the engine before transferring the kill cord to another driver".

[Boats&Outboards]

That is because the full details haven't yet been released. Without wanting to prejudge I would suggest this will be the message in the end.

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Observer

I don't. Bad idea to kill the engine if at sea and swapping helmsman.

I suspect that MAIB are making the point that people can be ejected from a boat at low speed in tickover or even from stationary in neutral, if someone falls on the throttle. Some new ribs i helm don't have any interlock on the throttle, so it would be really easy to knock it into full ahead or full astern accidentally from neutral when swapping drivers.

I personally would not have a problem with either killing the engine, or removing the cord from my leg momentarily while swapping drivers. Both methods have a risk factor involved with them and it's a case of picking the lowest risk method for the given situation (does the throttle have an interlock, is the engine reliable, is a passenger likely to open the throttle during swap over)

The main message is wear the killcord if the engine is running whenever possible. It is just as important when doing low speed manoeuvres as at planning speeds.

[Mollers]

I see no need to reinvent the KC whatsoever. Those that fail to use one, may also drive their kids around with 5 pints onboard. Who knows? Irresponsible a/holes will always exist in society, no end of legislation or reinvention will mitigate for this.
If any of my kids are helming the 7m (ages 17-21), I sit beside them with the KC attached to me. I reckon that my experience will tell me when yanking the cord is required. If the helm should get chucked out, I pull the cord. If we both go, the cord gets pulled. If I go, the cord comes with me, the Etec will restart.
My problem with wireless or electronic variants would be, if a non MOB situation should occur, which required immediate shutting down of the engine, pulling the KC is seconds quicker than turning off the ignition. An electronic option may not allow this.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by NSS

I've been giving this some thought and I'd like to float (pardon the pun) an idea for comments/opinions.

My first thought was for something along the lines of a 'dead man's brake' and so I got to thinking about those sort of applications. The train analogy, where the driver has to maintain pressure on the throttle (as I understand it) is not an option, as discussed earlier with the idea of a sprung loaded throttle. But a far more common arrangement may be viable.

If you have an electric lawnmower then I suspect you'll already be familiar with it.

In the case of my Bosch, before the motor will start (on a push button), you have to pull back the bar that runs parallel to the handle. As soon as you let go of that pull bar the motor stops.

My idea would be to have a secondary 'ring' behind the steering wheel that has to be pulled back against the wheel before the engine will start. As soon as that ring is released, the engine would stop. And to stop anyone from simply tie-wrapping the ring to the wheel, the 'trip' action of the ring being drawn back would have to take place within a defined time (say 3 seconds) before the starter circuit is activated.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't see why the helm would need to let go of the wheel (and hence the ring) under any normal conditions.

If this is a crap idea then I'm happy to be shot down. If not, then how do I patent it?

Umm, crap idea! just cant see this working, Education, education and wear your KC!!

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Observer

I don't. Bad idea to kill the engine if at sea and swapping helmsman.

Bad idea to swap helm at sea if the conditions and location are to dangerous to kill the engine!

Double kill cords as an off the shelf part might be a useful option? PB2 courses would like them, anyone teaching juniors needs them and actually a load of others might want them too

[harryesd]

Originally Posted by Mollers

I see no need to reinvent the KC whatsoever. Those that fail to use one, may also drive their kids around with 5 pints onboard. Who knows? Irresponsible a/holes will always exist in society, no end of legislation or reinvention will mitigate for this.
If any of my kids are helming the 7m (ages 17-21), I sit beside them with the KC attached to me. I reckon that my experience will tell me when yanking the cord is required. If the helm should get chucked out, I pull the cord. If we both go, the cord gets pulled. If I go, the cord comes with me, the Etec will restart.
My problem with wireless or electronic variants would be, if a non MOB situation should occur, which required immediate shutting down of the engine, pulling the KC is seconds quicker than turning off the ignition. An electronic option may not allow this.

+1

[Crusher]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Double kill cords as an off the shelf part might be a useful option? PB2 courses would like them, anyone teaching juniors needs them and actually a load of others might want them too

Never really thought of this before, but you could clip a second KC to the plastic clip at the business end of the KC so if helm or navigator goes in engine stops (subject to the location of the KC switch, mine centre console so it would work) might have a look at doing this........

[timw]

Originally Posted by Mollers

Currently working near Padstow. It's thought that, the Wife was at the wheel with youngest on her lap turning figures of eight.
Apparently, they'd only owned the boat for two weeks.

Listening to local tittle-tattle and spreading rumour on here really isn't helpful or respectful on such a sad and serious matter.
I suggest you read others peoples posts and head their advice to wait for the facts to be published in due course.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Crusher

Never really thought of this before, but you could clip a second KC to the plastic clip at the business end of the KC so if helm or navigator goes in engine stops (subject to the location of the KC switch, mine centre console so it would work) might have a look at doing this........

Can't see why it wouldn't work on a Merc kill switch.

Not sure about the forked type though. I suspect you might have to do a bit of subtle modification to the forks to stop them sliding over each other , assuming the button will pull out far enough.

It's definitely worth a go. I may do the same.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Can't see why it wouldn't work on a Merc kill switch.

Not sure about the forked type though. I suspect you might have to do a bit of subtle modification to the forks to stop them sliding over each other , assuming the button will pull out far enough.

It's definitely worth a go. I may do the same.

this is how the rya recommend it on children's courses: http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollection...%20courses.pdf

Am I the only one who raised an eyebrow at Mollers suggestion the HE wears the kill cord when his 21yr old is driving? I am assuming that his offspring are experienced in handing the boat and trusted to come and pick him up - so why not make THEM wear the KC when helming? I can't see any advantage to "dad" wearing the KC and not the helm IF the helm knows what they are doing.

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Poly

this is how the rya recommend it on children's courses: http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollection...%20courses.pdf

Thanks Polly perfect solution for swapping helms without stopping the engine and ensures at least one person connected to the kill switch all the time.