Tragedy at Padstow - 5 May 2013

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by timw

I suggest......

YOU suggest?!!! As if.............

You've been itching to stick your nasty, stirring nose into this one for a while.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

Thanks Polly perfect solution for swapping helms without stopping the engine and ensures at least one person connected to the kill switch all the time.

But only if you've got side by side front seating

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Leapy

But only if you've got side by side front seating

Still room for the new helm to stand at the side of a single jockey seat and clip on.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Poly

Am I the only one who raised an eyebrow at Mollers suggestion the HE wears the kill cord when his 21yr old is driving?

Nope - I raised both eye brows! But we are in the crazy world where kids stay at home till they are 30, get walked to school (or dropped off by the chelsea tractor) till they are 18 etc... so nowt surprises me these days!!!

But I did wonder if he's had dual controls fitted to his car in case they drive him anywhere. Then I remembered I'd quite like dual controls when my other half drives me and definately if you were and thought maybe he had a point!!! Although I'd say he'd be better using the RYA dual cord method.

I like the RYA connector pics they make it clear. Mostly use Honda ones and this should work with them I think. Never used a toggle one so can't quite figure out whats going on there. I've also used the johnson/evinrude OMC ones and I'm not so sure it'll work for that...

[Ian M]

Originally Posted by Poly

Am I the only one who raised an eyebrow at Mollers suggestion the HE wears the kill cord when his 21yr old is driving? I am assuming that his offspring are experienced in handing the boat and trusted to come and pick him up - so why not make THEM wear the KC when helming? I can't see any advantage to "dad" wearing the KC and not the helm IF the helm knows what they are doing.

I think that I am with Mollers on this one. You have both an "assuming" and an "IF" in there. Surely it all hinges on the relative experience of 'Dad' and helm. 21 years of life does not mean experienced in MOB situations. Both of my sons have tried the helm in years gone by. They are now 13 and 17, but were younger when they first tried, and I wore the KC. IF they were doing things I did not like, I could kill the engine. Naturally this was never in challenging conditions.

[ShinyShoe]

There's a bit of a difference between < 13 and 21!

If my son when he's 21 still needs me to wear the KC when he's at the helm he wont be allowed at the helm. He needs to know that the thing most likely to injure him is not the prop (coz the KC will hopefully have slowed or stopped that) but the back of his dad's hand for mis-behaving!!

I don't remember my PB-2 instructor wearing a second KC. But I do remember him taking control of the throttle a couple of times when he wasn't happy with my manouvre (I think only for me being a pansie with the throttle rather than going to fast).

But you don't have to be wearing the KC to stop the boat, you just grab the red curly thing and tug, then slap driver for whatever stupidity they were doing.

[gotchiguy]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

There's a bit of a difference between < 13 and 21!

If my son when he's 21 still needs me to wear the KC when he's at the helm he wont be allowed at the helm. He needs to know that the thing most likely to injure him is not the prop (coz the KC will hopefully have slowed or stopped that) but the back of his dad's hand for mis-behaving!!

I don't remember my PB-2 instructor wearing a second KC. But I do remember him taking control of the throttle a couple of times when he wasn't happy with my manouvre (I think only for me being a pansie with the throttle rather than going to fast).

But you don't have to be wearing the KC to stop the boat, you just grab the red curly thing and tug, then slap driver for whatever stupidity they were doing.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to have the kill cord on if you have an inexperienced or young <14 helm. But it comes down to experience. I have always worn the kill cord as I grew up with our various sized boats, but the level of control of my father has gradually decreased as I have got older to the point where I now take longer offshore trips on my own. When taking a test drive on the Osprey demo RIB, the salesman kept hold of the kill cord until after a few minutes he realised first that my dad wasn't going to do anything stupid then that I wasn't going to do anything stupid. In general the helm should have the KC however.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by timw

Listening to local tittle-tattle and spreading rumour on here really isn't helpful or respectful on such a sad and serious matter.
I suggest you read others peoples posts and head their advice to wait for the facts to be published in due course.

I think it's interesting to hear different theories into why this happened and no more disrespectful than all the threads currently running on here, I'd mentioned before that it could have been a child falling forwards onto the throttle as an explanation.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Ian M

I think that I am with Mollers on this one. You have both an "assuming" and an "IF" in there. Surely it all hinges on the relative experience of 'Dad' and helm. 21 years of life does not mean experienced in MOB situations.

Well he bought a searider for them and the Mollers family are not new to boats, and I think I am right in saying are water skiers / wake boarders so I think its a reasonable assumption that they are practiced in picking people up from the water. If they are not then it would be easy enough to do. Presumably since Mollers says, "If I go, the cord comes with me, the Etec will restart." he is happy for them to restart and come after him.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Poly

Well he bought a searider for them and the Mollers family are not new to boats, and I think I am right in saying are water skiers / wake boarders so I think its a reasonable assumption that they are practiced in picking people up from the water. If they are not then it would be easy enough to do. Presumably since Mollers says, "If I go, the cord comes with me, the Etec will restart." he is happy for them to restart and come after him.

That's pretty much it with the kids Poly. All of 'em are SR honed and VM comfortable, some maybe moreso than others.
The least experienced being Mrs M. Her brief being, drive at me, switch off before you hit me and i'll grab a lifeline. No fancy maneuvering. If for any reason, this isn't gonna happen , stay near me, get on the wireless and get an LB or helo out.

[Nos4r2]

The current conversation about falling forwards onto the throttle brings me to something that's been bothering me.

Why don't top mount controls lock in neutral like side mounts-and does anyone know of a top mount that does have a neutral lock?

The one on the Ballistic can just be knocked into gear by anyone passing and I'd really rather it couldn't.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Why don't top mount controls lock in neutral like side mounts-and does anyone know of a top mount that does have a neutral lock?

The one on the Ballistic can just be knocked into gear by anyone passing and I'd really rather it couldn't.

Does anyone know the throttle type/layout of the model of RIB in this case? Where is it located on the console and is it a type with or without neutral lock? The possibility of a throttle being knocked inadvertently by someone squeezing into helm position goes some way to explain how all six crew/passengers were thrown into the water (an aspect that has been puzzling me).

[Nos4r2]

It's a top mount control, but as for the neutral lock I don't know.

[chris.moody]

The "fly by wire" wireless top mounted throttles as well as having no interlock move very easily where as the side mounted cable ones are far stiffer. A slight knock could very easily knock it wide open.

Anyone know why they don't have an interlock?

[Ian M]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Why don't top mount controls lock in neutral like side mounts-and does anyone know of a top mount that does have a neutral lock?

Teleflex do one, there is one on Jianna.

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by PeterM

But you can press the button (which is not that likely to be done by accident) and it's throttle only and no gear selected.

It's the few seconds of connecting a cord or pressing a button (that people don't do) that will always cause drama....

Didn't know there was a button is it press to engage, press to disengage? Will look for it next Saturday when I'm on a vessel with that type of throttle.

[Lee argyle]

My verado is fly-by-wire and has a neutral button, once pressed if the throttle is moved or accidentally knocked the engine will only rev and not engage a gear

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

Didn't know there was a button is it press to engage, press to disengage? Will

It is on the merc and I think similar on ians yamaha.... Not seen other makes yet.

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by PeterM

It is on the merc and I think similar on ians yamaha.... Not seen other makes yet.

I'll check Kevin's Yamaha next week. How do you disengage the neutral lock after engaging it?

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

I'll check Kevin's Yamaha next week. How do you disengage the neutral lock after engaging it?

Press the same button again ( mine flashes to warn the user it's activated )