Tragedy at Padstow - 5 May 2013

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Poly

nice day, family boating, sounds like overlooked the kill cord, whats the chances their feet would be in footstraps? Would a sprung throttle that returns to neutral/tickover if nobody keeps it open not be a more 'fail safe' approach? RE the throttle maybe and why not! ?

Don't know about how the RNLI does things I don't even know if they have footstraps on their boat but I would think so. re the footstraps when I have the hammer down my feet tend to find them. Its only important that the Cox stays in the boat so the Pax don't have to be using them. They can pop out like depth charges if they want providing the Cox has the ability to recover them and call for help f they ave been injured. Unfotunately the sea is never your friend but RHIBs have a way of making one (me ) forget that sometimes


?[/QUOTE]

because they don't have any accidents there do they?[/QUOTE]

I dunno why don't you google it?

I was just pointing out to Dave that some countries do enforce it as he felt it could not be enforced he later conceeded that you have to have guns to make it work, so be it but It's probably not neccesary to fire them. I always thaought that it could be enforced by Clamping companies if it came down to the nub



But we are both bright people (albeit you can type better than me) so we know that accidents do happen amd people forget to wear killcords despite training and knowledge.

Surely a mimimum standard of education and ability is desirable before somebody goes on the water in a powerboat. I am not advocating training courses to make the RYA richer just a test and I am also not suggesting that the poor driver in this incident didn't have any training and I am sure given another chance he'd be wearing the kill cord. Poor Soul that he was!

[MarkWildey]

This is such a sad story for all concerned and my wishes goes to those who survived, their family and friends


I'm not about to pass a view on the cause or where the fault lies because from my couch I don't know the full facts.


Many years ago someone made an observation to me that if I, as driver, fell out of the boat how would my crew get back to me as the kill cord was attached to me. Since then I always carried a spare kill cord attached to the boat so that my crew could get the boat going again and pick me up!

[Silverfox]

Originally Posted by Chris Caton

PD, I like you always use my kill cord, but I too have glanced down on occasion to see it dangling, again but for the grace of God.............. all those who have never made a mistake please step forward!

About 20 years I had a similar thing happen when the steering wheel slipped through my hand, we turned so sharply instantly and all ended up sitting on the floor at the back of the boat.

We could have do easily been turfed in, and I wasn't wearing the kill cord, wasn't my boat and wad always wrapped around the throttle!

It looks like this chap had made a mistake, I don't think that mistake deserved the outcome.

Very very said especially when I look at my 8 and 6 year old larking around without a care.

[Silverfox]

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

This is such a sad story for all concerned and my wishes goes to those who survived, their family and friends

I'm not about to pass a view on the cause or where the fault lies because from my couch I don't know the full facts.

Many years ago someone made an observation to me that if I, as driver, fell out of the boat how would my crew get back to me as the kill cord was attached to me. Since then I always carried a spare kill cord attached to the boat so that my crew could get the boat going again and pick me up!

I have a spare too for that exact reason.

[falcon0310]

One thing about this is problem guy first boat and as I started with 6 hp, at 13 yro
So easy to miss judge things when you not had any experience

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Don't know about how the RNLI does things I don't even know if they have footstraps on their boat but I would think so. re the footstraps when I have the hammer down my feet tend to find them. Its only important that the Cox stays in the boat so the Pax don't have to be using them.

yes the RNLI do have footstraps (on at least some of their Atlantics). They also have the throttle's in an "odd" place almost behind the helm. Perhaps Martin or one of the others can explain why? But I guess is could be linked to what Mollers was talking about?

because they don't have any accidents there do they?

Well they almost certainly do. My point was regulation, even with enforcement won't stop accidents - it doesn't on the roads.

I was just pointing out to Dave that some countries do enforce it as he felt it could not be enforced he later conceeded that you have to have guns to make it work, so be it but It's probably not neccesary to fire them. I always thaought that it could be enforced by Clamping companies if it came down to the nub

what do those enforcing authorities actually enforce though? pieces of paperwork and that you have all your equipment on board, doesn't mean the world is any better / safer. Is our accident rate higher, or the consequences worse than in places where it is tighter regulated? I'm sure I googled that a few years back and the answer was probably not.

Surely a mimimum standard of education and ability is desirable before somebody goes on the water in a powerboat. I am not advocating training courses to make the RYA richer just a test and I am also not suggesting that the poor driver in this incident didn't have any training and I am sure given another chance he'd be wearing the kill chord Poor Soul that he was

I can see the logic - but practicality wise I'm not sure its actually going to stop many accidents. I think there should be a logic which means responsible boatbuilders wouldn't want to see their boat in the headlines for the wrong reasons and would ensure that all their boats were handed over to the first owner (or for preowned sales their new oner) with appropriate instruction.

[neil9327]

We've got enough regulation and nanny state in this country - we don't need any more.
The government should recommend and educate, not enforce. If people want to go out and kill themselves after hearing the recommendation then it's their lookout - as long as they don't affect others, which in this case I believe was the case.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by neil9327

We've got enough regulation and nanny state in this country - we don't need any more.
The government should recommend and educate, not enforce. If people want to go out and kill themselves after hearing the recommendation then it's their lookout - as long as they don't affect others, which in this case I believe was the case.

Neil - you think the 8 yr old girl was properly informed of the risks and made a reasoned judgement?

Whilst this shouldn't be about saving money, a major rescue operation, a major accident investigation and I imagine many years of hospital treatment and rehabilitation ahead for that family. Do you think the rescue personnel, and the bystanders who got involved were not 'affected'? Sadly its not the first, and won't be the last family either. Regulation has its place. I have no idea if it would have had any impact on the events yesterday - but the 'let stupid people hurt themselves if they want' argument really falls over as soon as you let children on their boats or use the same water as them.

[Sebbo]

Modern engines kill the motor when triggered by release of the kill cord, If you go to start without the kill cord they come back to life (assuming the engine is returned to Neutral, this usually catches people out in a panic).
At least mine does this function as do most of the modern outboards I've driven. This features is there for exactly the reasons you mention - driver goes AWOL how do you get him back? A spare is always handy, my spare set of keys have said 2nd kill cord. More incase I loose my primary set of keys.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by Tim M

A chap from Falmouth coastguard was on the news this morning explaining all about kill cords and stated it doesn't appear one was being used at the time. Totally tragic. I personally believe that tighter regulation should be introduced. For example, mandatory ICCs for anything over say 10hp, compulsory use of kill cords for open boats. Rules enforceable by local harbour authorities who would be allowed to keep all/a percentage of fines to find extra staff/resources.

I agree this is totally tragic but that is all I agree on. Hundreds of thousands of people took to the water this bank holiday weekends and enjoyed themselves without causing fatality.

I think it is highly likly that the owner was briefed on the importance of the kill cord at hand over if he bought the boat new. His owners manual will highlight its use and any books on the subject will have covered it. There is at this stage no way of knowing if he has had formal training but I would be willing to bet money he was aware of what the kill cord did and why it should be worn. I suspect compulsory training would not have made any difference here.

Suggesting that local harbour authorities should be turned into "traffic warden style" enforcers of the law is an interesting (but unrealistic) idea.

[matt h]

Tragic and it is. but its a case of more money than sense!

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by Sebbo

Modern engines kill the motor when triggered by release of the kill cord, If you go to start without the kill cord they come back to life (assuming the engine is returned to Neutral, this usually catches people out in a panic).
At least mine does this function as do most of the modern outboards I've driven. This features is there for exactly the reasons you mention - driver goes AWOL how do you get him back? A spare is always handy, my spare set of keys have said 2nd kill cord. More incase I loose my primary set of keys.

A minority of engines do this, personally I think it's a very unsafe practice and wish the manufacturers would stop trying to differentiate their product in such an unsafe way. Yes a kill cord should stop an engine when it is disconnected but IMHO an engine should not start when the kill cord is not connected, this is a second benefit of nearly every brand of outboard engine.

Merc/mariner get round the problem of the helm falling overboard and taking the kill cord with him by fitting a switch that can be manually operated. Honda used to fit a spare kill cord end onto the control box moulding, most kill cords coul be temporarily replaced with a bit of string or similar in an emergency.

[falcon0310]

Originally Posted by matt h

Tragic and it is. but its a case of more money than sense!

Could not agree with you more

[Poly]

Originally Posted by matt h

Tragic and it is. but its a case of more money than sense!

Do you know something thats not reported in the press or did you know him personally? Otherwise it seems a rather huge leap to make and I hope you never find yourself in the situation where others are judging you posthumously or not following a cock up at sea.

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

A minority of engines do this, personally I think it's a very unsafe practice and wish the manufacturers would stop trying to differentiate their product in such an unsafe way. Yes a kill cord should stop an engine when it is disconnected but IMHO an engine should not start when the kill cord is not connected, this is a second benefit of nearly every brand of outboard engine.

Merc/mariner get round the problem of the helm falling overboard and taking the kill cord with him by fitting a switch that can be manually operated. Honda used to fit a spare kill cord end onto the control box moulding, most kill cords coul be temporarily replaced with a bit of string or similar in an emergency.

I agree with you Doug - its generally a backward step. Often you have a less experienced helm trying to recover someone in what might be tricky weather/waves - precisely when you don't want the stand in helm to go over with no kill cord... Always thought the mercury one was a bit dodgy though as
you could basically just ignore the kill switch if you flipped it up.

Anyone you trust to pick you up can be shown where the spare cord is. Anyone you don't want aiming a boat and prop at your head can be told how to make a mayday!

[ADS]

Its called a 'kill'cord for a reason.

[Doug Stormforce]

Police have revealed the victims names. The father was Nick Milligan, of BskyB, apparently he has been visiting that part of the country since a very young age.

I can't begin to imagine the loss the family have suffered but will be very interested to hear how much boating experience he had, how many times he had driven the RIB etc etc.

[matt h]

300 hp outboard. Family on board. Lots of other boats in vicinity. Its the pilots responsabilty to ensure safe passage of said large rib. Wear the bloody killcord! Its very basic stuff!!

[Silverfox]

Originally Posted by matt h

Tragic and it is. but its a case of more money than sense!

I think that is a ridiculous statement to make. As if he'd willing jeopardise the lives of his family, and the size of his bank balance doesn't make a mistake any more or less likely to happen.

[wavelength]

Its very basic stuff!!

let he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!!!
The only people who have never made a mistake at sea have never been there and we should all learn from our mistakes, just pray that your mistake when it comes is not a fatal one!
An unimaginable tragedy, so sorry for all involved. And it could have been so much worse-well done the guy who stopped the thing before it claimed members of other families.

[matt h]

Well he clearly did. ! I really feel for the family and involved persons!