Tragic RIB incident - Ireland

[willk]

Man dies after boat capsizes off Wexford - RTÉ News

The fact that all were wearing lifejackets will have prevented this being a MUCH worse scenario. The time in the water will have caused hypothermia and (I guess) resulted in the death of the older person. The case highlights the importance of good shore cover and the value of a handheld VHF and PLB on the person - not in a locker.

Thoughts with those concerned.

[Mollers]

5 hours!

Very sad. It must've been a little used area of water. You'd have to go a fair way offshore around here to not be spotted for five hours.

I agree re. VHF and PLB. I insist that our tribe take both when venturing forth.

One of whom, is leaving for the Emerald Isle today BTW, 'Yardage' building.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Mollers

5 hours!

Very sad. It must've been a little used area of water. You'd have to go a fair way offshore around here to not be spotted for five hours.

I don't think that UK boaters really appreciate how quiet the coastal waters around Ireland are. I find the west of Scotland bustling by comparison. I can go all day and maybe see less than five boats. You fall in here, you better have a plan in your pocket!

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by willk

I don't think that UK boaters really appreciate how quiet the coastal waters around Ireland are. I find the west of Scotland bustling by comparison. I can go all day and maybe see less than five boats. You fall in here, you better have a plan in your pocket!

Maybe the thinking that 'someone will be along in a minute' makes us a little too complacent?
We buck our ideas up out of season. I've heard.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by willk

I can go all day and maybe see less than five boats. You fall in here, you better have a plan in your pocket!

As many as that?

PLB is permanently on my lifejacket for the same reason. 11.30pm seems awfully late before anybody raised the alarm though. Sad news.

[ShinyShoe]

While very tragic, also surprisingly good result for the other 9. Could have been 10 times worse.

11:30pm does feel an awfully late time to be picking up the phone to report them overdue. But I suspect many of us suffer from similar issues. We expect to be back ashore at say 7pm. By the time we are recovered, tidied up and driven "back to base" it might be 8pm. BUT we don't expect anyone to panic when we aren't in at 20:00 exactly, so we "add on a bit" and tell them to call for help if we aren't back by 21:00. 21:00 arrives and we haven't checked in. But our shore contact thinks they should "add on a bit", by 21:45 they are trying phone mobiles etc and starting to get worried but feeling that something innocent has gone wrong like a puncture on the way home. Mobiles are "off" (underwater or battery flat?) or are on but unanswered (in the car where it wont get wet or in the boat without me). So someone decides to head to the launch location to check that they are back safe. Its now 22:30 and they need to decide what to do...

We need to be very selective picking shore contacts. They need to be prepared to bother the Coastgaurd if they can't locate us. We need to be clear we are already "adding a bit" by saying - Should be ashore by 7pm, if I haven't made contact by 7.30pm you need to do XYZ.

XYZ needs to be:
- Call my mobile. If you can't get an answer on my Mobile, call Johns. If we have come ashore we will be charging a phone so there is no reason for it to be flat and we will Text as soon as we get to shore anyway. If you can't get an answer on either phone call the Coastguard. Don't delay. Don't decide to check if we've arrived etc. Just call them. They will call us by VHF. If we are running late we will (a) have advised them because we know you'll call (b) be able to assure them we are safe.

Like others PLB and HH VHF on the Lifejacket. Mobile in a waterproof case in a dry bag on board. Really must sort a light for the Lifejacket (although PLB has one) - these guys will have been rescued in darkness having gone in in the daylight.

[boristhebold]

Very sad, agree VHF and PLB a must, I always have the PLB in my pocket and a handheld VHF with DSC attached to my life jacket. My mobile doesn't work in many areas along the jurrasic coast (on EE) and it can be quiet in some areas along that coast as most boaters tend to stay nr hotspots like poole, swanage, lulworth cover etc.

[two stroke mick]

Having watches the news report I will be adding a water proof torch to my life jacket. As a PLB and HH VHF may get damaged if ejected from the rib.

TSM

[Poly]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

Having watches the news report I will be adding a water proof torch to my life jacket. As a PLB and HH VHF may get damaged if ejected from the rib.

TSM

Have you considered a stone with automatic switch made for the job? I'm sure SPR would suggest a laser flare as a good alternative. Although there is a lot to be said for the general usefulness of a torch too.

[paintman]

Originally Posted by Poly

Have you considered a stone with automatic switch made for the job? I'm sure SPR would suggest a laser flare as a good alternative. Although there is a lot to be said for the general usefulness of a torch too.

A what?

[willk]

Originally Posted by paintman

A what?

TSM breaks eyerything. An automatic stone makes more sense...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by paintman

A what?

Autocorrect special!

should say STROBE

like this:

Lifejacket Light Uml Sea Flash Water Activated

[paintman]

I thought it was some clever new gizmo I'd not heard of

[Poly]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

... PLB a must,

Has Ribbing become more dangerous than ten yrs ago (when only the most serious cruises/adventures would consider a PLB)? I've not dug into any detail but it's quite likely the outcome would have been similar with a PLB, albeit resolved quicker; but more traditional tools like a light, a handheld vhf, or a more proactive shore contact might all have achieved the same.

I wonder whether our obsession with electronic tools to get us out of bother makes us complacent about the basic seamanship in the first place.

I can see scenarios where a PLB won't help, (e.g. wearer incapacitated, broken/lost on Impact, simply forgotten or left on wrong jacket inside the boat). Does the shore contact assume for longer that all must be OK if you haven't called the cavalry yourself?

I think PLBs are incredibly useful tools and when it next comes to splashing out on more pyros it might be a serious consideration BUT I don't think I would consider it a *must* have for most leisure boating, the way most of us would with life jackets or kill cords.

If we tell ourselves that the outcome would have been better for ourselves because of our extra gadgets we are probably missing the opportunity to learn from not ending up with ten unexpected swimmers in the first place.

All IMHO of course.

[Siochair]

Speaking of magic glow stones has anyone any experience of these?

https://www.spinlock.co.uk/en/catego...dw-py-slash-l1

I like the idea of the light being held above head height. It should improve the lights visibility and help preserve the wearers night vision.

[Ron Noco]

Such a shame that the alert was risen earlier as the rescue service are superb, there was a false alarm/ mix up recently near my local pier and within 15 mins there was one rescue rib on scene and another being trailered to the location, rescue helicopter 115 arrived 10 mins later and operation wasn't stood down until they were satisfied that everything was ok, rip

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Poly

I've not dug into any detail but it's quite likely the outcome would have been similar with a PLB, albeit resolved quicker;

Why have you reached that conclusion? PLB activated instantly, message to Falmouth within 10minutes, position (assuming modern kit) in 30minutes. Lifeboat in that area probably on scene with chopper in 30-45minutes. I fancy MY chances in the Irish Sea for 90minutes. Not sure I fancy them for 5hours.

but more traditional tools like a light, a handheld vhf, or a more proactive shore contact might all have achieved the same.

Light based on willk's 5 boats per day somewhat doubtful. Sounds like locating casualties once reported overdue may not have taken that long. Handheld VHF - completely agree but bear in mind the location signal may be an issue. In the Solent... No problem. But this is remote territory.

I doubt its got more dangerous, but PLBs have become more affordable. You'd think with modern tech of mobiles, text etc shore contacts would be more reliable but I doubt they have. I'd be interested to know how often shore contacts report people overdue. I rarely hear a VHF message about an overdue boat...

[two stroke mick]

Wilk

I dont break every thing, I only break the weak things.

Call it ultimate product testing


TSM

[Poly]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Why have you reached that conclusion? PLB activated instantly, message to Falmouth within 10minutes, position (assuming modern kit) in 30minutes. Lifeboat in that area probably on scene with chopper in 30-45minutes. I fancy MY chances in the Irish Sea for 90minutes. Not sure I fancy them for 5hours.

Actually the rudimentary statistics suggest 90% of people survive that long, dressed like that in the conditions they were in! As I said I haven't done any digging, and speculating on the cause of death is pointless, unhelpful and rather crude, but it may well be that cold water shock rather than hypothermia was the issue. Even then survival times in the (relatively warm!) southern Irish Sea are probably 1-6 hrs in the water unless wearing protective clothing. All sorts of factors like build, age, movement in the water impact this hence the range.

Your 90 minutes only gets rescuers in the right area (all going to plan, and assuming you are actually pretty close to their base). It doesn't mean you are found, and PLBs can only transmit effectively when you are fit and well enough to hold them above the water, and if your group are "separated" then the rescuers aren't necessarily brought to those most in need first.

Your expectation of surviving goes some way to making my point.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Poly

Your expectation of surviving goes some way to making my point.

Does it? In that case I'm not sure you've made your point very well coz I really don't get what you are trying to say? Your point seemed to be that PLB had become overly popular and encouraged risk taking. And that a well trained shore contact was possibly as useful as it didn't breed complacency.

Actually the rudimentary statistics suggest 90% of people survive that long, dressed like that in the conditions they were in!

You'd be the FIRST person to challenge those stats if someone else quoted them to me.

As I said I haven't done any digging, and speculating on the cause of death is pointless, unhelpful and rather crude, but it may well be that cold water shock rather than hypothermia was the issue.

In which case virtually no means of requesting help would make any difference, short of a second boat on your side ready to fish you out the water...

Even then survival times in the (relatively warm!) southern Irish Sea are probably 1-6 hrs in the water unless wearing protective clothing.

So 90 minutes is reasonable, 5 hours may be stretching things.

All sorts of factors like build, age, movement in the water impact this hence the range.

And we do know the chap who didn't make it was in his 70s.

Your 90 minutes only gets rescuers in the right area (all going to plan, and assuming you are actually pretty close to their base).

So - if you go here: Britain’s Next Search-and-Rescue Helicopters: Civilian Contractors you can see that the absolute maximum distance from any UK SAR Base (I know this incident was in Ireland - I can't instantly find their distribution but they have at least two bases and a fairly small island) is 250nm. Most of the time that takes you to extreme locations where even you would think a PLB on a RIB might make sense... Average response times of the new bases are intended to be 19minutes. The S-92 (with the 250nm range) has a cruising speed of 151knots so can reach the limit of its range in just over an hour and a half.

Most AWB have a speed of up to 25kts, (A75/85 over 30kts) and average launch is 10 minutes. Good chance they will be with me in my timescales.

It doesn't mean you are found, and PLBs can only transmit effectively when you are fit and well enough to hold them above the water, and if your group are "separated" then the rescuers aren't necessarily brought to those most in need first.

Yip - get all that. Although in this case it didn't read like a protracted search. But if you don't have a PLB consider this case:

You set out at 10am with a plan to return to base at 18:00, shore contact told to raise alarm if you haven't made contact by 19:00. Shore contact does exactly as you instructed and calls at 19:01. But you ended up in the water at 11:00... ...tell me you wouldn't want a PLB in your pocket. Your torch is great - if someone is passing. Your flares are as much use as your torch and probably not in your pocket.

Your VHF is great if there is someone near enough to hear you shout for help. There was a guy posted on ybw's motorboat forum the other day having broken down mid shipping channel in the Solent. He was unable to raise VTS by VHF. VTS has good coverage to ships several miles out so surprising. He was able to raise Solent CG - no surprise. But there are plenty of places up the West Coast of Scotland you'd expect to struggle to get Stornoway/Belfast on a handheld.

So you might be right - people may be less cautious because they know they have a magic button in the their pocket. **BUT** if it all goes t1t$ up will you not wish you'd got your button in your pocket?